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A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
01-22-2012, 05:25 PM
Post: #16
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
On fidelty setups people use different parts for all details

music player -> digital -> DAC ->balanced analoge ->analog processor -> balanced analogue -> amp

for blurays i would recommend

Bluray -> digital -> A/V processor -> balanced analogue-> amp

The reason people use different parts is that they think there is interference between the parts. On my old onkyo TX-NR 801e i used it as an amp for my receiver i normally use an di had too press the pure direct button. Because there was some interference (some evil noise) and it was gone ..

What i would use when i really want a good analogue line is a balanced line (audio + and audio - and it has a null). The nulls causes the fact that many interference noises can cleared ... Especially when they happen on all three lines ...In my current receiver i noticed balanced connections between my processor and amplitude part .... so i would prefer digital audio too it ...
Which means less interference ....

Using RCA between your receiver and your popcornhour gives you different dac too be used however more chance on interference on the RCA cable ... (it is not balanced). However i think that between the DAC in your receiver and your amp part it is balanced you seem too have an high end receiver from Denon. If your receiver is processing audio when you receive it analogue there is a chance it gets more interference ....

In the end it is not about theoretical picture but how your audio comes over too you when you listen too it and when you think the DAC in the popcornhour sounds better then your DAC in your receiver i would say use and go for RCA.

For me the ultimate analogue audio listening suite is way too expensive in what it offers above a good setup ...
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01-22-2012, 07:10 PM
Post: #17
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
That is where I was going.....

Do really you believe the DAC in your A210 is better than the one in your Denon....

I have an Onkyo... and a natural allergy toward HDMI and all it's DRM intentions... but my audio on pass through works and sounds better over HDMI than SPdif or Analog...

So I was triggered by the advice to buy a 10 times more expensive RCA cable set to improve the audio experience...


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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01-26-2012, 08:33 PM
Post: #18
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
My Denon Receiver does do DTS-HD & True-HD audio I use my Chord HDMI cables for those duties & Chord RCA cables for Stereo listening. I have more CDs than BluRay Discs so music is more my thing.

Popcorn Hour A210
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05-27-2012, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 05-27-2012 04:19 PM by tarcisio.)
Post: #19
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
(04-09-2011 04:29 PM)achtman Wrote:  I've just been going through similar things. Firstly, greatly to my surprise, the A-210 is sounding dramatically better than my CD player when playing FLAC. However, in the process of working this out, I have come to realise that cables can make an enormous difference, .....

Setup: A-210 -> TCI Coral -> Rega DAC -> Klyne Preamp
A-210 HDMI audio off; Passthrough for audio; FLAC music compression 5 streamed by wired Ethernet from Twonky Media Server on a QNAP

Hello, after a long search on the web about a210 music fidelity, I finally decide to post my frustating experience into this thread.
My initial setup was Twonkymedia-QNAP-> A210 -> analogic via rca ->stereo amp AudioAnalog Verdi 70 (hybrid)->Diapason speakers: horrible distorsion and, even if I read about volume level
to mantain under 0...I decided to buy a DAC to bypass any possible problem about nmt signal processing.

Now I have A210->coax->Dacmagic2->AA Verdi70 and all codec setted to passthrough.
Tipical sound level from -8 to -5 and test files FLAC and MP3. I often swap between amp input connected to A210 and Dacmagic during the test,
and now that I can't hear any difference I'm very confused. I'm a musician with a good experience with the listening of the scene, bass deep, instrument position
etc. so the alternatives are:
- everything is good and I became paranoic about the sound quality that already I reached
- dacmagic is so a poor dac that it can't do anything compared to the level of the other components
- A210 ouput is equally horrible in analog and digital output, so that Dacmagic can't do any miracle
- cables can do miracles....have I to try more ??
- streaming way can do any difference (upnp vs nfs/samba share)??

My hope was to gain quality,by dac, even with mp3 that always sound to loud, not clean....but I'm so disappointed that I do not know what to do....

Thanks in advance to all.
Tarcisio.
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06-04-2012, 07:39 PM
Post: #20
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
OK one by one

- everything is good and I became paranoic about the sound quality that already I reached........ do your ears say it's good? if not sure today test again tomorrow..

- dacmagic is so a poor dac that it can't do anything compared to the level of the other components..... dacmagic is good enough...

- A210 ouput is equally horrible in analog and digital output, so that Dacmagic can't do any miracle........ do your ears say it's horrible?

- cables can do miracles....have I to try more ??..... cables don't do miracles, but bad cables can do terrible things to the sound, also cable can suffer from interference...

- streaming way can do any difference (upnp vs nfs/samba share)??....... latency and data loss can distort playback...
test: put a reference audio FLAC on a USB stick, set the A210 volume on 0, set HDMI audio to off and PCM to passthrough... play from USB then from network.

take that as you fallback reference point and now change one variable each time.

my guess why it sounded bad in the analogic setup is that maybe the volume was +15... maybe?Rolleyes


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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06-04-2012, 09:58 PM
Post: #21
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
(06-04-2012 07:39 PM)Willem53 Wrote:  .....
- streaming way can do any difference (upnp vs nfs/samba share)??....... latency and data loss can distort playback...
test: put a reference audio FLAC on a USB stick, set the A210 volume on 0, set HDMI audio to off and PCM to passthrough... play from USB then from network.

take that as you fallback reference point and now change one variable each time.

my guess why it sounded bad in the analogic setup is that maybe the volume was +15... maybe?Rolleyes

Ok Thank you!
I'll try it and I'll let you know.
What I can say by now is that sound is distorted both in the analogic and digital setup when it is at 0 level: I have to set it max at -3 ....
Anyway, let's start with new test session you suggested.

Tarcisio
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06-05-2012, 05:08 AM
Post: #22
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
They changed the volume control in next FW that will come out in as few weeks


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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08-10-2012, 01:16 AM
Post: #23
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
To my experience with a c200 in a hifi only(no tv connected) setup I got to the same conclusion as the guy with the rega dac. Optical out sounds way better, the only thing that can mask the difference is the quality of the optical cable. I suspect that the rca out of the spdif is not 75ohm because even with an excellent vdh digicoupler cable the soundstage is compressed compared even to a mediocre optical cable. As for the optical cables look for focused lens cables, this can greatly reduce jitter to my experience, even by a cheap cable. Maybe the noise generated by the switching power supply does no good either transmitted by the rca, but the difference is so audible, that I suspect something serious problem by the rca like ohmic mismatch. I listen to electrostatic speakers that produces such a sounstage and detail, that these differences are absolutely reproducible and perceptible without doubt.
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08-13-2012, 07:06 AM
Post: #24
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
I have beresford tc 7510 dac conected to nad c316bee stereo amp to monitor audio bx2. My c-200 is conected to beresford with optical. Flacs sound great, but sound is same with or without beresford. Interesting. I read that beresford is not so bad dac. But i dont want to say c-200 is poor. No its really goood!!
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08-13-2012, 10:16 AM
Post: #25
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
I own a 30.000 dollar Audio Precision S2 cascade dual domain audio analyzer and I can confirm the quality of the D/A converters of the 200/300 popcorns. Nothing wrong with it.

And you don't need expensive cables, but I would not go for 1 dollar shop cables.
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10-27-2013, 11:34 AM
Post: #26
RE: A210 flac (fidelity degradation)? - Newbie question
Hello everybody, good news!

Only last week I upgraded A210 to the July 2013 fw and the range volume changed from -10:+10 to -15:0 .

Now the sound level is lower and the distorsion seems to be stopped.

I'll test again the same files from lan and usb, and I'll let you know.
I never lost my hope to obtain hifi sound from my nmt+dac ;-)

Tarcisio
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