Fence sitting: To buy or not to buy

[Auggie]

I'm a newbie to NMT and I've been fence sitting trying to decide if the Popcorn Hour's are ready for me to pull the trigger on a purchase.

Frankly, the bugs and issues of the newest x-200 line leave me hesitant. The UI is ghastly, but saved by the fact that custom "jukebox" UIs could be substituted. And some of the online reviews place this product more in the realm of "hobbyist" product as its not yet "ready for prime-time" release due to it's constantly in flux "beta" FW.

My requirements are thusly:

1) Flawless playback of HD 720p/1080p via HDMI from both a streaming server and attached storage device (USB/FW/NAS). Stuttering, intermittent (even occassional) pausing/skipping is absolutely unacceptable.
2) Menu functionality of both DVD ISO and BDMV/AVCHD folder/ISO.
3) Bitstreaming of DTS-HD/TrueHD.
4) Supports file formats of m2ts, mkv, wmv (pro), DVD ISO and BDMV/AVCHD folder/ISO.
5) Beautiful UI with movie cover art and synopsis (user installable UI acceptable)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the issues I've read about the x-200 that are problematic for me:

1) Gigabit not functional due primarily to hardware issue (will 100 Ethernet be sufficient for streaming the highest bitrate movie with HD audio?)
2) BD menu functionality intermittent (BD Lite only, WHEN it works): can full functionality (not just BD Lite) eventually be available via FW update?
3) Bitstreaming of DTS-HD/TrueHD ONLY from BDMV/AVCHD structure: can m2ts containers be eligible via future FW update?

I won't use PCH as a Blu-Ray player, nor do I necessarily need built-in hard drive functionality, however, from a review I've read on the A-200, it has serious issues with bitstreaming DTS-HD/TrueHD.

I don't mind paying extra for the C-200, but can the LCD screen be turned OFF or deactivated? I like my movie room dark with my components' lighting subdued or turned off.

My current setup involves streaming to a PS3 via PS3 Media Server, so I had to convert a lot of rips to satisfy the limitations of this method, which means I don't want to spend any more time converting 3 TBs of movies in order to get PCH to deliver on my requirements. I also stream to an Xbox 360 for the handful of wmv files I have. Suffice to say this whole system does leave me wanting...

And I'm ready to buy, IF the product can meet my stated requirements, either out-of-the-box, or via user installable mods (e.g. UI jukebox) that aren't too difficult to do for the average joe.

Or should I wait on the fence longer, hoping something bigger and better comes my way? Or maybe even build a DIY HTPC (can it be done for roughly the same price point?)

I realize posting in a PCH forum would most likely get a "pro" response to buy, however, I do hope any suggestions would be as objective as possible, with careful consideration given to all the issues that can be experienced with this product currently.

Many Thanks In Advance for your insightful suggestions!

[dh2005]

Blu-ray 'menu functionality', as you call it, is not available on the A-200. The A-200 doesn't have a Blu-ray licence (why would it, when it doesn't have a drive bay...?), so the C-200 is your only option; other than the option of not buying one, of course.


Re your concerns:

1. What you've heard about gigabit is true, I believe. I know very little about networking... but 10/100 is sufficient for streaming 1080p, I'm almost certain. Someone else can verify that.

2. BDMV, yes, at the moment is slightly spotty. Not awful, but far from perfect. An entirely new Blu-ray playback engine will debut in the next firmware; many people, none more so than I, have high hopes for this.

3. I believe I'm right in saying that HD audio bitstreaming is definitely coming in the next firmware for single-file playback (.TS, .M2TS, .MKV etc.). Something else I'm looking forward to.


The LCD panel can be turned-off, by the way. That was an absolute 'need' for me, too.


Re your requirements:

1. Yes, other than firewire. No firewire sockets on any of the NMTs.

2. Yes, if you get the C-200.

3. Yes.

4. Yes, for everything other than .WMV Pro; which I think is supported, though I'm not certain.

5. Yes, through the use of a community-programmed jukebox (YAMJ is my recommendation).


It's more of a 'hobbyist' than 'Average Joe' product, for definite. That said, if Joe really can't be fagged with making compromises of the PS3/Xbox 360 variety, he might be minded to make some additional effort. That was the position that I was in, in December 2008. I bought myself an A-110 just after Christmas, and I've never looked back.

I've yet to see an HTPC that can do everything the C-200 can do for the same money. There's a lot of talk, but CNET Reviews is full to the brim with failed pretenders.


Welcome to the board, by the way. Fire away, with any questions.

[Auggie]

@dh2005: Thanks for your input!

It seems like we have parallel concerns in several key areas, and I'm glad to hear updates are in the pipeline that can hopefully address these issues.

The big one is Gigabit as I've read that the networking chipset is not truly Gigabit, meaning that a software patch may not entirely resolve this issue and thus eventually leading to a possible hardware change in a future release (if there is enough complaints to warrant an in-stride product hardware spec change). This is why I'm wondering if waiting a little longer may be more prudent as I've read that the bandwidth of an HD movie with HD audio could theoretically peak at 110+ Mbs, more than 100baseT Ethernet (100Mbs) can sustain.

I don't mind hooking up a phalanx of USB hard drives directly, however, I would need to devise a way to have these powered on/off in conjunction with PCH, most likely via remote, so I can improve the "family" usability index, tho there is a family of drive enclosures (NewerTech miniStack) that automatically spin up/down the drive when the attached host is powered on/off.

[dh2005]

(05-14-2010 07:27 PM)Auggie Wrote:  I've read that the bandwidth of an HD movie with HD audio could theoretically peak at 110+ Mbs, more than 100baseT Ethernet (100Mbs) can sustain.

Into the future, yes. But not right now. The highest bitrate I've ever seen during playback is in the low fifties, and that was 1080p video with HD audio.

The Sigma 8643 chipset, at the heart of both the A-200 and C-200, can process circa 110Mbps, at full tilt. So, really, 100BaseT is ideally suited; once you cross 100Mbps, you're knocking on the door of the most significant bottleneck in the machine.

Don't let 10/100 vs. gigabit ethernet hold you back, if everything else you want is in there.

[Auggie]

(05-14-2010 09:21 PM)dh2005 Wrote:  Into the future, yes. But not right now. The highest bitrate I've ever seen during playback is in the low fifties, and that was 1080p video with HD audio.

The Sigma 8643 chipset, at the heart of both the A-200 and C-200, can process circa 110Mbps, at full tilt. So, really, 100BaseT is ideally suited; once you cross 100Mbps, you're knocking on the door of the most significant bottleneck in the machine.

Don't let 10/100 vs. gigabit ethernet hold you back, if everything else you want is in there.

Altho big to me, Gigabit is not a deal breaker, so in fact, I had made the purchase of a C-200 a couple hours ago just based on the positive updates you mentioned were forthcoming! =) I would only hold back if there was a known hardware update in the works that would definitely address this and any other issues I'm unaware of. But since that's the only issue that you've mention as NOT being potentially resolved on my discriminating list, I just couldn't bear wasting any more of my valuable time on my video conversions that I've queued up (to get them to play "nice" on the PS3). I just wanna rip and play 'em. It was either PCH or WD Live TV HD.

SO, you better not be feeding me vaporware about all those niggling fixes in the works!

BTW, what's a truly good n00b guide (gads, I'm now using 'net slang) for get YAMJ loaded up and running?

[dh2005]

Good attitude. I hope and think that you'll be rewarded for your faith.

There's no "vapour" coming from me. I report, faithfully, only what I'm told. I get no reward for defending the Popcorn Hour brand. I genuinely think that the C-200 is our greatest hope in this environment.

Anytime you have a question, drop me a word. Including YAMJ. We can tackle that when we know more about your setup.

[Adrgha]

100Mbit is more than enough for any Bluray content, well, so far anyway. I've played the Avatar Bluray, which I believe is the BD release with the highest bitrate thus far (actually, I read it used the highest bitrate the BD tech allows), over my network via SMB, and it played flawlessly. This was a full rip (46GB, I believe) with DTS-HD MA and subtitles enabled.

[dh2005]

Well, there ya have it...!

[Blatant]

I agree with everything dh2005 said above. I have both a C-200 & an A-200 and besides having the A-200 brick on me (Popcorn took care of the issue) I have had a great experience. I stream my blurays (ISO format) from my home server to both my units and have never had an issue...not even a stutter (over cat5). As far as YAMJ, many guides on this site will lead you through the setup just take your time, read through the material and expect to play around with your setup until you get it to the point where you are satisfied. I too was hesitant initially but after a little time and effort my Popcorns deliver....especially in the WAF department. In fact I think my C-200 is taking out the trash and washing my car as we speak

[Auggie]

All good news to hear! So far (without actually having the device delivered yet), it seems a good purchase decision (or is it just my sub-conscious trying to sooth and justify the hurt to my wallet from the $371 USD hit which includes shipping AND taxes--sux to be in California---and I don't even need the optical drive capability nor the LCD).

I have family coming to town mid-June, so hopefully it will be delivered and I will have everything up and running by then.

I've been reading up on YAMJ, but what little I've gathered so far, it runs off a server. But can it be run off the PCH? My limited Googling hasn't returned an obvious hit yet.

There are three reasons why this may be important:

1) I would like PCH to "start up" automatically running YAMJ, to make it as "family & friends" & idiot proof as possible. Now, if it can do this even if YAMJ is running off a network server, it'll do, but if running off a network server will it handle the follow-on scenarios ?
2) I may attach a bank of USB drives directly to the C-200.
3) I may load an internally installed HDD with media content.

If YAMJ can NOT be run directly off the PCH, how do you incorporate the media content from directly attached/internally installed drives into the YAMJ library?

On a tangent, if YAMJ is unable to incorporate said content off locally attached drives, is there any point in installing a hard drive at all inside the C-200? Other than perhaps a USB flash drive for BD Live content?

[chris57]

You are beginning to veer off into the wide world of YAMJ

It would be best if you started a thread in the YAMJ section as that's where the guru's for YAMJ hang out.

You run YAMJ to generate a series of files and images. You then place those files and images wherever you like. There is no need to run anything in day to day use. You only run it to update when you add new content. You can run YAMJ on the contents of each HDD and have the output for that HDD on the HDD. Then whenever you access the HDD the YAMJ jukebox will show. Same for all your USB HDD's or if you simply use a lot of internal HDD's via the front slot and swop then out.

On boot the NMT will default to the last successfully accessed media location. I use my NAS and have what is known as an index.htm file located in the share. This displays on boot and presents me with icons linking me to the internal HDD or my jukeboxes, be they YAMJ, UMC or whatever other jukebox i use. It also has links to things such as youtube etc.

[Auggie]

(05-16-2010 04:23 PM)chris57 Wrote:  You are beginning to veer off into the wide world of YAMJ

Thanks for the tip!

Basically the premise of my inquiry was to determine if indeed YAMJ is run (or from what you described, "processes") on another platform, and if so I can go ahead and start building the framework now versus waiting until receipt of my C-200. All the preparatory work I can do in advance will allow me to get the C-200 up and running to my satisfaction sooner rather than later.

I didn't need step-by-step instrux, just some verifications of my suspicions, which you've graciously provided

[Blatant]

That's actually a great idea Auggie, in fact it is exactly what I did while waiting for my initial popcorn to be delivered as it gave me some time to tweak out YAMJ with the exact cover art I wanted, its look and feel, etc. As chris57 stated above, hop over to a couple of YAMJ topics on this site where the YAMJ gurus hang out and I am sure you will find exactly what you are looking for and if not you will def find someone willing to answer any questions. It may seem overwhelming at first, but don't stress...take your time and be patient and the process will easily become clear. With the new gui on the way....another thing to look forward to. Oh and btw, welcome to the fold.

[Auggie]

(05-16-2010 10:32 PM)Blatant Wrote:  That's actually a great idea Auggie...

Yea, I'm glad I started now because I ended up spending an entire day, from dawn til the wee morning of the next day downloading, configuring, testing, modifying, reverting, relenting and finally settling on a customized YAMJ configuration based on the Aeon skin+mods. It's not exactly what I want, but it'll do for now.

I can't believe how much time it took me to learn and claw my way through web code (which I've never truly delved into before) and the various properties/settings files of YAMJ. The most frustrating thing is that what I've read is that how the page will render on a computer will not be the same as rendered on the PCH, and right now I'm seeing some very ugly glitches that I hope will not be there once rendered on the yet-to-be-delivered C-200.

Hopefully, soon!

[jimbo]

If you think YAMJ is useful definitely look at Dynamic YAMJ. It needs to run on a WindowsPC though but it is the best thing ever. Am I exaggerating? Well, I've got a 4TB NAS hooked into my PC, plus its internal 4TB, and run Dynamic YAMJ to stream everything via HTTP. It handles TV series beautifully and you can mark each episode watched as you watch them. Finish watching an episode? Mark it watched and it skips to the next one so just hit play. You can dynamically sort by title, year, genre, rating (although that's been broken recently), country, or even by actor. You can also hide watched movies with a click of a button then show them again with another click. Unfortunately it only keeps one set of watched data per instance of of the NMT server so it's hard for multiple people households.

Honestly my A-200 just shipped and all my experience has been with an A-100 but I'm hoping it works just as well on the A-200, maybe better with the faster chip.