New UI for 200er Series, same as A-300 UI?!

[werner]

we first need to discuss internal anyway, for sure we are expecting also disappointed users if we move to flash ui, but the same is if we don't move to flash , anyway it doesn't matter what we do there will always be complains hahaha

(10-07-2011 03:01 PM)Foxia Wrote:  Werner has said already there will be 1 more firmware update (HTML) before any official move to flash. Hopefully any bugs that still exists will be fixed in that update before any official move.

[accident]

(10-07-2011 02:46 PM)vaidyasr Wrote:  I would really like to use the new Flash UI. The Flash UI will be still the old outdated actionscript-2.0 based or 3.0? There were lot of functions missing in AS2.0 comparing AS3.0

Let me give my breakdown of the situation..

It's a good thing to finally throw out gaya.. the aches compared to the original popbox run at 60-70% the speed because gaya wants more memory and more cpu than the current chips can put out. It also uses it's own method to draw the screen so it's not directfb, it's not the more optimized stuff.. It's at the point with the new sdk and chipsets that an almost complete rewrite is needed. I think everyone who has used the html interface can agree that your being held back from it's lack of modern options. A browser of sorts will be needed in a future so I think as part of the growing up from the a110s, it's a good thing to have gaya go away and concentrate all that efforts on something new and improved. Huge changes in the embedded options in this area.. I welcome this and can live with the in-between year.

Flash dev.. You can do it for free, there are some advantages to not do it for free but your not limited by doing it for free. Steve007 has shared how he does it in the past and I'm sure will be more than happy to share it again with the updated what he now knows...

Anyone who is working with music or photos you should have left html a long long long time ago.. what you can control in the player using the api is 100000% better than what your stuck trying to make work in the html limitations...

flash version.. I can lay this down really fast:

FLDH (Flashlite for the digital home), it's slightly better than 3.1 and slightly less feature rich than 4.0. It's AS2 and there are only 2 features missing from it you can't add yourself. 1: the class specific to images is not in there.. 2: how you load some things is the old method.. 99% of as3 code will run..

Because it's the embedded version, things missing because the chips don't do it are also missing. this is things around opengl es style features.. fades, transparency, the ability to pixel by pixel move stuff.. To say you can't use it because it's not as3 really shows the lack of understanding between the 2 versions... the other stuff in as3 is more based on mobile like gps, touch screen, things you don't use or need in a tv with remote box..

Flash 10.1 lite is the only other option that MIGHT run on the sigma chips but last I heard it's 99% arm based and not fully ported.. Notice the LITE after the name.. all you would get is the 2 missing classes in as3, but there's way to do it in as2..

THE API:

I hate to say it but most of my year has been finding and reporting and help test bug fixes in the api.. there's still some more to go but the api right now compared to how it worked in janurary is night and day differences..

Also there are now sample applications, there is just about everything you might need to start making a new ui.. It's the same classes that syabas uses in their products so they update time to time, swap the class and you get the improvements syabas made for their stuff. Eversion doesn't use them because we started when app support was nonexistent but for someone starting to make an app today, you could pump out at least a section of your interface per day.. IT's all there you just need to try it and while some things will be harder.. 99% of it will be faster and easier with WAY WAY WAY more options than gaya gave you.

[Loptec]

I vote yes, big time!!

People that want to continue developing stuff for the old UI won't have to update..

It feels like the 200-series has been stuck for too long now and it has too many bugs and problems..

I think this "rebirth" is JUST what it needs!

[User]

Werner, Yes go for the new solution.

[gkreidl]

(10-07-2011 03:01 PM)Foxia Wrote:  And I disagree. The Lose of the CSI apps is merely temporary until developers can get to work on adding a FLASH frontend for there apps instead of a HTML one.

Most of current CSI apps are not developped any more actively and I don't believe, that the developers will start again just to create a new interface. There are only about a hand full of currently active developers and you should ask everyone of them if he is willing to invest work into creating new interfaces before you count on that. I for sure won't.

Guenter

[nathan.never]

(10-07-2011 03:02 PM)werner Wrote:  I think it is a little bit strange if some say most of the yes voters don't know what they vote for.

I think it's strange for you to think it's strange. Do you honestly don't think that at least 70% out of that 85% who woted yes knows anything about userapps, YAMJ, HTML or flash?
You throw them a shiny glittering video sprinkled with sugar and spice and everything nice, and you get the poll result you wanted...

Just remember how everybody was excited before NMJv1 was due for release. Well, we all know how that ended...

And one more question - what happens if we don't choose to update and after a year or so, we need a renewed bluray keys like we needed them with the previous FW? How do we get them if we don't want new UI with them? Remember - we all payed for a BR licenced player, so we should all have one for as long as we choose to use it.

[Smiggel]

(10-07-2011 03:49 PM)nathan.never Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:02 PM)werner Wrote:  I think it is a little bit strange if some say most of the yes voters don't know what they vote for.

I think it's strange for you to think it's strange. Do you honestly don't think that at least 70% out of that 85% who woted yes knows anything about

So, you think that 70% here is stupid and not knowing? They all bought the PopCornHour because it looked nice? Come on...!

[nathan.never]

(10-07-2011 03:59 PM)Smiggel Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:49 PM)nathan.never Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:02 PM)werner Wrote:  I think it is a little bit strange if some say most of the yes voters don't know what they vote for.

I think it's strange for you to think it's strange. Do you honestly don't think that at least 70% out of that 85% who woted yes knows anything about

So, you think that 70% here is stupid and not knowing? They all bought the PopCornHour because it looked nice! Come on...

Don't misinterpret me! Who said stupid?!
My wife doesn't know anything about NMT and she's not stupid!
Not knowing - apsolutely!
I just say that most don't know how to setup even a YAMJ.
Why do you think NMT is advertised with banners of NMJ on the top of their webpage? - So people will buy Popcorn that looks nice. you got that part right. We all like nicely wrapped up things. Even if we don't really know what is under the wrapping...

[jediafr]

In effect if we reject this flash UI does that mean that you'll support the old one or we'll you drop support the 200 series ?

[Cherek]

Well werner let's get the facts straight here : If you remove Gaya and have a better HTML option you'd make a lot of devs happy Developers loathed Gaya because it was a poor HTML environment (please keep in mind my knowledge of the technical relation between the two is limited).
Which made development a lot harder because what would work in "normal" HTML didn't mean it would work on the PCH.
After all those blood, sweat and tears (imagine dramatic music on the background ) the developers got their applications working, and now get a slap in the face because their hard laboured work won't be usable in the future.
For a lot of people who use their apps that simply doesn't seem a right way to go about things. Certainly since for instance the User-Dev jukeboxes have uplifted the usage of the PCH so much that eventually Syabas started to think it might be a nice feat to sell with the box themselves (NMJ).

Maybe "user developed apps" isn't a feature by itself, but a lot of us profited from it.

BTW does this also mean that all gaya based units are pretty much out of firmware updates?
I mean, if there's no wish to support it on the 200's why keep doing it for the 100's?

[cutter]

(10-07-2011 04:04 PM)nathan.never Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:59 PM)Smiggel Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:49 PM)nathan.never Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:02 PM)werner Wrote:  I think it is a little bit strange if some say most of the yes voters don't know what they vote for.

I think it's strange for you to think it's strange. Do you honestly don't think that at least 70% out of that 85% who woted yes knows anything about

So, you think that 70% here is stupid and not knowing? They all bought the PopCornHour because it looked nice! Come on...

Don't misinterpret me! Who said stupid?!
My wife doesn't know anything about NMT and she's not stupid!
Not knowing - apsolutely!
I just say that most don't know how to setup even a YAMJ.
Why do you think NMT is advertised with banners of NMJ on the top of their webpage? - So people will buy Popcorn that looks nice. you got that part right. We all like nicely wrapped up things. Even if we don't really know what is under the wrapping...

Nathan, I am one of those 85% that voted yes. With all due respect, I believe you're missing the big picture. Technology shouldn't be aimed at geeks (and I mean this at the best possible way since I consider myself to be one, working in the IT industry). Technology should be about making things simple to the majority of users, not for the IT people. I for one am sick of having to fine-tune YAMJ and change skins because skin A is no longer supported or function B is not functioning following the latest change in IMDB and the way the skin parses that info. At then end of the day, I want a turn-key solution that enables me to have a centralised point for support and predictable behaviour. I live to see the day where hardware and software works the same way and as reliably as a car. You just turn the key and go. I don't have to be a mechanic in order to drive a car. I don't see why the PCH or any electronic device for that matter should be any different...

[werner]

first gaya was made by us to provide a easy to port and modify middleware solution for sigma chipsets, as you may know we licensed our solution to different companies , Pinnacle, HDX, Egreat,........, gaya is so old omg
New browsers which we for sure also tested for 200er series won't help anyone at all because gaya is not just a browser, with gaya you handle much more (playback, mounting,...........) so even if we put in a new webkit browser on 200er series current jukeboxes will be fucked, sure they can show the frontend but you won't be able to play anything from the browser, beside that the soc can't even work well with a webkit browser, it will be a slowmotion browser.

And no that doesn't mean that gaya based units are out of firmware updates.

(10-07-2011 04:22 PM)Cherek Wrote:  Well werner let's get the facts straight here : If you remove Gaya and have a better HTML option you'd make a lot of devs happy Developers loathed Gaya because it was a poor HTML environment (please keep in mind my knowledge of the technical relation between the two is limited).
Which made development a lot harder because what would work in "normal" HTML didn't mean it would work on the PCH.
After all those blood, sweat and tears (imagine dramatic music on the background ) the developers got their applications working, and now get a slap in the face because their hard laboured work won't be usable in the future.
For a lot of people who use their apps that simply doesn't seem a right way to go about things. Certainly since for instance the User-Dev jukeboxes have uplifted the usage of the PCH so much that eventually Syabas started to think it might be a nice feat to sell with the box themselves (NMJ).

Maybe "user developed apps" isn't a feature by itself, but a lot of us profited from it.

BTW does this also mean that all gaya based units are pretty much out of firmware updates?
I mean, if there's no wish to support it on the 200's why keep doing it for the 100's?

[Foxia]

(10-07-2011 03:49 PM)gkreidl Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:01 PM)Foxia Wrote:  And I disagree. The Lose of the CSI apps is merely temporary until developers can get to work on adding a FLASH frontend for there apps instead of a HTML one.

Most of current CSI apps are not developped any more actively and I don't believe, that the developers will start again just to create a new interface. There are only about a hand full of currently active developers and you should ask everyone of them if he is willing to invest work into creating new interfaces before you count on that. I for sure won't.

Guenter

If there is enough demand from users for certain apps to make a return, one of the few developers here will take there time to get a flash one built.

I don't use CSI apps anymore because I find they are memory hogs on my A-210. And the only one I ever used a lot for the most part was the community developed Transmission.

[nathan.never]

(10-07-2011 04:26 PM)cutter Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 04:04 PM)nathan.never Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:59 PM)Smiggel Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:49 PM)nathan.never Wrote:  

(10-07-2011 03:02 PM)werner Wrote:  I think it is a little bit strange if some say most of the yes voters don't know what they vote for.

I think it's strange for you to think it's strange. Do you honestly don't think that at least 70% out of that 85% who woted yes knows anything about

So, you think that 70% here is stupid and not knowing? They all bought the PopCornHour because it looked nice! Come on...

Don't misinterpret me! Who said stupid?!
My wife doesn't know anything about NMT and she's not stupid!
Not knowing - apsolutely!
I just say that most don't know how to setup even a YAMJ.
Why do you think NMT is advertised with banners of NMJ on the top of their webpage? - So people will buy Popcorn that looks nice. you got that part right. We all like nicely wrapped up things. Even if we don't really know what is under the wrapping...

Nathan, I am one of those 85% that voted yes. With all due respect, I believe you're missing the big picture. Technology shouldn't be aimed at geeks (and I mean this at the best possible way since I consider myself to be one, working in the IT industry). Technology should be about making things simple to the majority of users, not for the IT people. I for one am sick of having to fine-tune YAMJ and change skins because skin A is no longer supported or function B is not functioning following the latest change in IMDB and the way the skin parses that info. At then end of the day, I want a turn-key solution that enables me to have a centralised point for support and predictable behaviour. I live to see the day where hardware and software works the same way and as reliably as a car. You just turn the key and go. I don't have to be a mechanic in order to drive a car. I don't see why the PCH or any electronic device for that matter should be any different...

I belive you are missing the big picture. I for one have been using YAMJ for about two years now and my oppinion is that the changes that were made in imdb or whatever else YAMJ depends on were implemented by user-developers in a matter of days (yes, days) and the update went as smooth as possible even on librarys as large as thousands of videos. No need to rescrappe, no need to bang my head against a wall, no nothing! I believe I haven't even touched my old scrappings (YAMJ database) in a year or so - only updated.
To depend on Syabas to implement a new feature or a bugfix for their soon to be one and only jukebox is something unthinkable to me! They have periods of 3-6 months since their FW updates!
A much better solution is to leave YAMJ for users to develop, tweak, improve or whatvever - if you ever used YAMJ you should know how fast and easy that works!
For example I myself found some bugs that needed fixing in YAMJ (be it scrapping-wise due to changes in internet databases or be it just something useful that needed fixing) and the time it took from writting to Omerton to the actual solution was no more than a day! Good luck with that from Syabas!

[plm]

(10-07-2011 04:58 PM)nathan.never Wrote:  I belive you are missing the big picture. I for one have been using YAMJ for about two years now and my oppinion is that the changes that were made in imdb or whatever else YAMJ depends on were implemented by user-developers in a matter of days (yes, days) and the update went as smooth as possible even on librarys as large as thousands of videos. No need to rescrappe, no need to bang my head against a wall, no nothing! I believe I haven't even touched my old scrappings (YAMJ database) in a year or so - only updated.
To depend on Syabas to implement a new feature or a bugfix for their soon to be one and only jukebox is something unthinkable to me! They have periods of 3-6 months since their FW updates!
A much better solution is to leave YAMJ for users to develop, tweak, improve or whatvever - if you ever used YAMJ you should know how fast and easy that works!
For example I myself found some bugs that needed fixing in YAMJ (be it scrapping-wise due to changes in internet databases or be it just something useful that needed fixing) and the time it took from writting to Omerton to the actual solution was no more than a day! Good luck with that from Syabas!

You'll still be able to use YAMJ. You'll have to use Eversion or another Flash-based skin since the HTML support won't be there, but the point is that without Gaya running and hogging all of the unit's memory you'll get a slicker environment to run it in. And that means you can continue to get the same level of support for YAMJ and its skins that you've become accustomed to.

So you don't have to use Syabas' jukebox at all.

If you already move over to a Flash-based jukebox, like Eversion/YAMJ then the question effectively becomes "do you want a more responsive operating system to run it on?"