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Improve mpg support
01-24-2009, 12:22 PM (This post was last modified: 01-24-2009 12:39 PM by mmolletje.)
Post: #1
Improve mpg support
It seams that currently the A-110 does not support some common (MPG) formats?

It would be great if I could use the device to playback media recorded by other devices, like a harddisk recorder or photo camera.

Some related:
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...hp?tid=504
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...?tid=15670
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...?tid=15139
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...?tid=15100
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01-25-2009, 05:28 PM
Post: #2
RE: Improve mpg support
You have to remember that rips do not automatically conform to standards and these 'unofficial' files night only have been tried with particular apps.
There is a lot of modifying set top boxes to cope with what official broadcasters do, this is a lot worse.
Syabas do a lot of work on this but there are limits.

A110 with 1TB Seagate, PC with 4TB share
Onkyo 606, Celestion 5.1 speakers
Samsung PS58B850
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01-25-2009, 05:55 PM (This post was last modified: 01-25-2009 05:55 PM by Willem53.)
Post: #3
RE: Improve mpg support
(01-24-2009 12:22 PM)mmolletje Wrote:  It seams that currently the A-110 does not support some common (MPG) formats?

It would be great if I could use the device to playback media recorded by other devices, like a harddisk recorder or photo camera.

Some related:
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...hp?tid=504
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...?tid=15670
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...?tid=15139
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...?tid=15100

all except for the one xvid are mpeg PS and according to the popcornhour website they should all work...


http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/i...tegory_id=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_stream

The photo camera thing is a little more tricky as some use a licensed proprietary format. same as HDDrecorders just to avoid DRM issues.
However there is enough free transcoding software out there


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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01-25-2009, 09:47 PM
Post: #4
RE: Improve mpg support
(01-25-2009 05:55 PM)Willem53 Wrote:  all except for the one xvid are mpeg PS and according to the popcornhour website they should all work...

That's the main reason for me posting this request. I have a Conceptronic television harddisk recorder. The harddisk can be reached over the network, but the A-110 doesn't play the recorded MPEGs. According to Conceptronic the format is very standard (?). Nothing special. So, I thought the support of standard video formats -which is already very good- could still be improved a bit.

Also because there is a clear use case for it. Media players are not only intended for getting rid of the pile of DVDs, but also to play back ones own recordings, made by the harddisk recorder, the photo camera, etc. The videos made on my Canon camera, my Nikon camera and my harddisk recorder don't play.
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01-25-2009, 10:28 PM (This post was last modified: 01-25-2009 10:37 PM by spawn.)
Post: #5
RE: Improve mpg support
The pch has no problems with mpeg files confoming to standards - if your conceptronic recordings do not play - there are either something in them not conforming to standards, or some issue regarding sharing them from the device over network preventing playback.

I have thousands of mpeg files, either recorded by my 2 different harddisk recorders (Sony and JVC), and captures done with my semipro C-Cube II mpeg2 hardware capturecard or software encoded using lots of different software mpeg encoders - and everyone plays just fine.

your links do not link to problems with the NMT but mostly to problems with the media files.

second link for instance is to a xilisoft mpeg1 VCD clip which has been pulled of a VCD without the CDXA headers being stripped out - thats a non compliant mpeg which needs to be fixed first with something like vcdgear

http://www.vcdgear.com/

Third link is to an xvid.avi which has nothing todo with mpeg


The last time someone posted problems with mpeg2 playback I could easily document non conformity of the mpeg from a supplied sample and someone directed the user to an updated version of the application used to create the mpeg thus solving the problem - so before any further debate on what the NMT should do or not, you need to supply a media info report and sample of a file from your conceptronic device to verify its mpeg conformity and verify weather this is in any way related to problems on the NMT - if it is I will gladly support any request for the NMT to play it.

So please supply media info report and sample file of approx 50mb (upload to rapidshare or similar) and lets look at that.

thx

PS: As for your cameras videos - these are most likely videos in m-jpeg which is not the same as mpeg, and not supported by the NMT.

Living room: C200/A200/A100 HDMI to Pioneer KURO KRP-500A plasma / Denon AVR 3808 / KEF 5005.2 / B&W DM685
Kids room: C200/A110 HDMI to Panasonic 42PZ85, Optical to Logitech Z5500.


PLEASE READ THE WIKI
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01-26-2009, 12:05 AM (This post was last modified: 01-26-2009 12:08 AM by mmolletje.)
Post: #6
RE: Improve mpg support
I uploaded a small sample. First copied it to the PCH and tried it. Playback starts with switching tv mode, then a black screen of a few seconds. I wouldn't be surprised if Conceptronic is not compliant with the standard, but I'm not an expert. So, it would be great if someone could tell me what is wrong. Conceptronic does advertise with the ability to play the recorded mpg on other media players on the network, so I expected it to be standard.

The sample recording:
http://rapidshare.com/files/189410768/20...2.mpg.html

Media info:
General
Complete name : 20090125_2332.mpg
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 36.1 MiB
Duration : 1mn 2s
Overall bit rate : 4 864 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 1mn 2s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 271 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 9 800 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.412

Audio
ID : 192 (0xC0)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Duration : 1mn 1s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Video delay : -118ms

Menu
Format : DVD-Video

PS. The camera videos turn out to be M-JPEG. I will try to batch convert them. Thanks.
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01-26-2009, 12:10 AM (This post was last modified: 01-26-2009 01:11 AM by spawn.)
Post: #7
RE: Improve mpg support
Thanks

the media info report looks ok at first glance - Ill download the sample now and take a closer look at it.
ok - here are a compliancy report from mpeg-2 validator
It fails compliancy on a few points, missing program end code and wrong vbv buffer size - but nothing really serious which I think should prevent it from playing.

There are however 2 entries which could effectively prevent playback on other hardware players but the conceptronic
Both video and audio have an Encrypted header - despite the video not seeming to be encrypted !!
I cant tell if these encryption headers are leftovers from the tv-stream or from the conceptronic - but its very likely these are the main reason it wont play on the PCH who could beleive the stream to be encrypted. It could also be the Missing Program end code - I cant say for certain but Im mostly inclined to think its the Encryption headers.

If I remux the mpeg with my favourite mpeg editor MpegVCR, the encryption headers gets removed (and missing program end code gets resolved also) - and the file then play as it should on the PCH.

If I were you I would contact Conceptronic and log this as a bug, asking them to remove these headers from the program streams it create - and if possible fix the missing program end code.

------------------------------------------------------
MPEG-2 Validator v1.4.0.131 - 26-01-2009 00:36:05

File under analysis: "F:\20090125_2332.mpg"..!

Begin Process:

Begin Program Streams Summary:
Missing Progam End Code...
File "F:\20090125_2332.mpg" is a MPEG-2 Program Stream
MPEG file size 36.14 MB
MPEG Packs = 18502
Sectors delay = 0.0 ms
System headers = 131
Rate Bound = 10080000 bps -> 9843 Kbps
Video Bound = 1 active video streams
Audio Bound = 1 active audio streams
Variable Bitrate Operation (System MPEG-2 VBR)
Video Picture Rate is locked to SCR
Audio Sampling Rate is locked to SCR
MPEG Pack Size = 2048
Packets per Pack = 1
Program Mux Rate = 9843 Kbps
Total PES packets = 18769
PES Packet Lenght Max. = 2028
Number of Video Streams: 1
Number of Audio Streams: 1
Padding Stream, packets = 136, Total = 126 KB
Private Stream 2, packets = 262, Total = 255 KB
MPEG Audio stream, ID: C0
Encrypted!!,
PES packets = 976,
Total = 1.90 MB
Video stream, ID: E0
Encrypted!!,
PES packets = 17395,
Total = 33.46 MB
End Program Streams Summary.


Begin Video Streams Summary:
Elementary Stream E0 is a MPEG-2 Video Stream
Video Delay Stream E0 = 533.2 ms
Number of Frames = 1560 -> 62.40 Sec
Number of Sequence Headers = 130
Sequence Headers Aligned = Yes
Horizontal Size = 720
Vertical Size = 576
Aspect Ratio = 4:3
Frame Rate = 25 fps
P-STD Buffer Size Bound = 0 KB (From System Header)
*VBV Buffer Size = 250 -> (500 KB)
Stream Type = MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Chroma Format = 4:2:0
Picture Structure = Frame
Intra DC Precision = 9
Top Field First = Yes
DCT Type = Field
Quant. Scale = Nonlinear
Scan Type = Alternate
Frame Type = Interlaced
Number of GOPs = 130
First GOP Closed = Yes
Number of Closed GOP = 1
Max. frames per GOP (without first & last) = 12
Min. frames per GOP (without first & last) = 12
Avg. frames per GOP (Total) = 12.00
Max. Frame Size = 65048
Min. Frame Size = 5312
Average Frame Size = 22490
Frames I = 130 -> 8%
Avg. Frame I Size = 263 KB
Frames I Total Size = 7040188 bytes, size 20%
Frames P = 390 -> 25%
Avg. Frame P Size = 87 KB
Frames P Total Size = 11237520 bytes, size 32%
Frames B = 1040 -> 66%
Avg. Frame B Size = 32 KB
Frames B Total Size = 16807644 bytes, size 47%
Nominal bitrate (Sequence Header) = 9800000 bps -> 9570 Kbps
Average Bitrate = 4392 Kbps
Peak Bitrate (1 sec) = 4699 Kbps
End Video Streams Summary.


Begin Audio Streams Summary:
Elementary Stream C0 is a MPEG Audio Stream
Audio Delay Stream C0 = 415.2 ms
Audio decoded bytes = 11819520 -> 61.56 Sec
P-STD Buffer Size Bound = 0 KB (From System Header)
Found 0 sync words
Audio Sync Losses: 0
Layer = 2
bitrate = 256 Kbps
Frequency = 48000 Hz
Error protection = Enabled
Private flag = 0
Mode = stereo
Copyright flag = 0
Original flag = 0
Emphasis = none
Left Channel DC Level = -90.3 dBFS
Right Channel DC Level = -90.3 dBFS
Left Channel Peak Level = -7.5 dBFS
Right Channel Peak Level = -7.4 dBFS
*Left Channel RMS Level = -22.8 dB
*Right Channel RMS Level = -22.8 dB
Difference Left-Right RMS Level = 0.0 dB
End Audio Streams Summary.

Video Stream Duration: 62.40 sec -> 62:10 (secs:frames)

Duration Difference from Video to Audio = 840 msec
Initial Delay Audio to Video (PTS based) = -118 msec

Processing time: 00:00:03

Result:
Compliance Test: Fail!!

End.

Living room: C200/A200/A100 HDMI to Pioneer KURO KRP-500A plasma / Denon AVR 3808 / KEF 5005.2 / B&W DM685
Kids room: C200/A110 HDMI to Panasonic 42PZ85, Optical to Logitech Z5500.


PLEASE READ THE WIKI
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01-26-2009, 01:45 PM
Post: #8
RE: Improve mpg support
(01-26-2009 12:10 AM)spawn Wrote:  If I were you I would contact Conceptronic and log this as a bug, asking them to remove these headers from the program streams it create - and if possible fix the missing program end code.

Thanks, I will. At least I know what to report now Smile .

I don't think though that they will fix it. The last reply I got from Conceptronic stated that they were not able to do anything about the MPG format and that their own players are compatible with each other Sad
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