C200 fails to display dvb subtitle (feature request)

[iwens]

The c200 is not able to display dvb subs, u can select them but the subtitle will not be displayed on the c200.

In the dutch most tv stations are switching to these subs on hd channels so my family is complaining that they are missing subtitles with there favorite recorded tv shows.

I capture the full stream with a firedtv card in combination with dvb viewer recording service. Vlc media player is able to display the subtitle's

Code:

ID : 19
Complete name : Z:\Medium\[ Medium ] 08-13 20-25-00 Net 5 HD.ts
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 6.61 GiB
Duration : 1h 19mn
Overall bit rate : 11.8 Mbps

Video
ID : 221 (0xDD)
Menu ID : 209 (0xD1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Duration : 1h 19mn
Bit rate : 11.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.212
Stream size : 6.14 GiB (93%)
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio
ID : 222 (0xDE)
Menu ID : 209 (0xD1)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Duration : 1h 19mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Video delay : -1s 402ms
Stream size : 146 MiB (2%)
Language : Dutch

Text #1
ID : 134 (0x86)
Menu ID : 209 (0xD1)
Format : Teletext
Language : Dutch

Text #2
ID : 137 (0x89)
Menu ID : 209 (0xD1)
Format : DVB Subtitles
Language : Dutch

Text #3
ID : 138 (0x8A)
Menu ID : 209 (0xD1)
Format : DVB Subtitles
Language : 888

Download link for a 25 mb test file:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~iwens/files/ [^]

The file name is test.ts play in vlc media player and select the dutch sub.

Mantis Entry

[chris57]

What makes you think it should, as far as i'm aware m2ts files have had to have external subtitles to display on the NMT.

This is not Beta specific is it?

[iwens]

(09-01-2010 06:20 PM)chris57 Wrote:  What makes you think it should, as far as i'm aware m2ts files have had to have external subtitles to display on the NMT.

This is not Beta specific is it?

I have been asked to post it, and it's a feature request which u clearly can read in the mantis link.

In the past all sub where hardcoded in the transport stream in the netherlands, now with the switch to hd the transport stream has a seperate sub embedded in the stream. Embedded subs will play on the c200 in a transport stream, only not a dvb subtitle.

So i think it would be a usefull feature if the c200 will be able to display it.

This said the current bug is that the c200 lists the sub, u can select it, but it will not be displayed.

[oddball]

The Subtitles are in Teletext format, and they are not supported by the C-200.

There is programs out there letting you rip/convert this text to .srt files.

Here: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ProjectX you can read about one program

that handles it, and download.

Edit: and on this site: http://www.openwiz.org/wiki/ProjectX

you will find a guide how to do it.

[iwens]

(09-01-2010 07:33 PM)oddball Wrote:  The Subtitles are in Teletext format, and they are not supported by the C-200.

There is programs out there letting you rip/convert this text to .srt files.

Here: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ProjectX you can read about one program

that handles it, and download.

Why do u think they are in teletext format, the first is maybe, but the second text isn't and the third also not. In the c200 u can only select 2 of the 3 subs.

Converting dvb subtitle to srt is not a easy process as they are grafical like the subtitle on dvd. So it's hard to automate.

Dvb Subtitling

Quote:DVB Subtitling



DVB stands for Digital Video Broadcasting is a consortium of broadcast industry companies. DVB technology delivers digital channels in a multiplex and relies on the viewer having a suitable digital receiver either as a standalone Set Top Box (STB) or built into their Digital TV set. The transmission method may either be digital terrestrial (DTT), satellite, or cable distribution. Not all receivers support DVB subtitles.

Details

The DVB standard (EN 300-743) defines a bitmap based subtitling format. A DVB compliant stream can also carry Teletext data and Subtitles, see Here.

Subtitles are generated as a graphical bitmap and then encoded and compressed into the DVB delivery format). The subtitle data is multiplexed with the video, audio data and possibly other subtitle languages and then transmitted as part of the station's output transport stream to the viewer's decoder. Once a decoder receives the data the subtitle is re-constructed in the decoder's memory. A user can select whether to display subtitles or not and, if available, which one of several languages. At the appropriate time the decoder will then display the subtitle on-screen.

For more technical information about DVB subtitling download our White Paper

Because the subtitles are delivered as a graphical bitmap, unlike the character code based Teletext and US style Closed Captions formats, there is no restriction on the languages that can be supported. This is an advantage when new or special characters need to be added such as the Euro symbol or new Chinese characters.

It is also possible to create special characters or logos but there are some restrictions on image size and colour depth.

Because the DVB multiplex can carry multiple subtitle streams multiple languages can be supported

Other uses of DVB subtitles



Logos - it is also possible to create special characters or logos but there are some restrictions on image size and colour depth.
Menus - it is possible to use the same technology to send menus and other on screen text in multiple languages in a single stream. This allows local headends to have different languages displayed for thier local viewers.
Local alerts and emergency messagegs - DVB subtitles can be used to deliver messages targeted at specific local regions in a single national broadcast stream.

Also please understand this is a feature request, of course u can remux recode everything to make it able to play on the c200. But i would like it if the c200 just can display the dvb subtitle. Also like i said as it's a graphical process this is very very hard to automate.
'
Only a dev can answer if this is hard or easy to implement and give a reason for it.

[oddball]

All the text is in Teletext format i promiss you, i do a lot of recording from

my Dreambox and if i want to play them on my C-200 i have to RIP the text only.

It's not so hard and it is fast, you do NOT have to *.mux anything, you

just rip the text and name it "filename.srt", you don't have to do anything with the *.ts file.

I submited a guide in my previous post.

And you rip the "teletext text" that is an easy one to convert, and it works like a charm

I'm giving you a program and a guide to "solve" your problem, it's up to you if you want to use it.

[iwens]

(09-01-2010 07:55 PM)oddball Wrote:  All the text is in Teletext format i promiss you, i do a lot of recording from

my Dreambox and if i want to play them on my C-200 i have to RIP the text only.

It's not so hard and it is fast, you do NOT have to *.mux anything, you

just rip the text and name it "filename.srt", you don't have to do anything with the *.ts file.

I submited a guide in my previous post.

And you rip the "teletext text" that is an easy one to convert, and it works like a charm

Well u live in sweden so maybe they are, now please download my test file play it in vlc select the first subtitle which is displayed as teletekst dutch and view it, u will see exactly what it is namenly teletext info.

Select the second and u will see normal dvb subs like stated in the quoted text, select the third and it will display subs for the hearing challenged people.

In the dutch the dvb subs are only used.

Also u are missing the point, i made a feature request for native support of dvb subtitle. If it's easy to rip which i still doubt why isn't it easy for the c200 to display it ?

[oddball]

I just give you a solution so that your family can watch the programs with

Dutch subs, i thought that it was the main problem. You might lose an hour or two installing

the program, read the guide and try it out, but maybe it's worth it keeping the family happy

[iwens]

(09-01-2010 08:13 PM)oddball Wrote:  I just give you a solution so that your family can watch the programs with

Dutch subs, i thought that it was the main problem. You might lose an hour or two installing

the program, read the guide and try it out, but maybe it's worth it keeping the family happy

I appriciate that , but i also like to keep it as a feature request, i actually use project-x for years i coded a custom front-end which fully automated this. The custom front-end checked the recordings moved it to my nas and send me a email with the recording name. This was especial used with my dvico player as the player had loads of problems playing the captured sd ts streams. Subs were never a problem as they where just burned in the video so there was no seperate sub track.

But last time i checked projectx only handled mpeg streams and dutch dvb hd is based on avc and projectx cannot handle it. My custom app still handles all standard sd recordings perfectly.

I tried to extract the dvb sub to text but failed with the normal tools, and it shure is beyond what a normal user would have to do to play his recording.

I believe dvb subtitle support is a long standing request in the a100 community (search the forums) but for some reason never happened. Lot's of players in fact can play dvb subs.

And i cannot think of a reason why a player so advanced as the c200 should have a problem with dvb subs.

[chris57]

(09-01-2010 06:36 PM)iwens Wrote:  I have been asked to post it, and it's a feature request which u clearly can read in the mantis link.

I asked as in order to have any chance it has to have demand. There are obviously more owners in the open forum, therefore it should go there to try and establish the demand.

Why is eveyone so defensive these days

[Willem53]

+1 for DVB subs

DVB has a real future and cable and satellite subscribers will start to record the HD streams more and more as PVR become very cheap or are part of their decoders as a cheap option.
I believe they have the right to store and catalog their recording in a NMT...
Demand may not be to big now but will grow I'm sure..
just look at the hdtv related newsgroups and see how they grew in the last 12 months...