[Audio] Twonkymedia, QNAP server, and DLNA finally working

[null_dev]

I have a QNAP TS-439 pro NAS, and a Popcorn C200 running through a video projector as my home cinema. One of the things that has been bugging me with this setup is having to power up the video projector to select songs to play - burning up a lot of power and expensive lamp time simply to listen to music.

I've tried all sorts of solutions to use the C200 as a media renderer, but all have been flaky or simply failed. My initial research used the Twonkymedia server that comes with the QNAP NAS but this at best is able to play one or two songs before crashing both Twonky and the C200. With the latest version of the Twonky Media server (version 6.30) things have started to work stably.

If anyone else wants to try it all you have to do is login to the QNAP administration page go to the applications branch to the QPKG plugins tab. press the "GET QPKG" button and select the TwonkyMedia 6 package (You will previously had to have setup a user account with QNAP Forums) and install it. I turned off the UPNP server (an earlier version of Twonky) prior to installation but apparently the QPKG will do this duration installation.

Once the QPKG is installed click on the TwonkyMedia Icon and it show a link to the Twonky configuration page (bookmark it in your browser for future use). On the Basic Setup/Sharing page make sure you have pointed TwonkyMedia to your correct media locations. I'm only interested in the audio side of things so that is all I've tested. TwonkyMedia will start to index your media. If you know the IP address of the PCH200, on your network under the "Advanced Setup/Media Receivers" you should see the IP address listed - probably automatically set to "Generic DLNA 1.0". I've not played with these values as this seems to work.

Check that Twonky has found your media by going to the "Media Browser/HTML" tab and work your way through the sort tree to see if any of your media has been picked up.

If it all looks good grab a piece of software that can act as a UPNP/DLNA control point - I searched on Wikipedia and just downloaded Kinsky Desktop version 3.3.27 and installed it on my PC. When I launched it it picked up the TwonkyMedia server and it automatically set the PCH200 as the default media renderer (I don't have any other media renderers on my network).

From the Kinsky Desktop I was able to play and que songs to the PCH200 plus control the volume. Which given my previous experiences was quite a novelty. I've also tried the Eyecon controller software on an IPhone that was logged into the household WiFi. Iit was able to play single songs - apparently there is a bug in the current version that won't allow it to play Albums or playlists on the C200 - but according to a posting on the Eyecon Forums this is to be fixed in the next iteration.

Some quibbles. With the Kinsky desktop whilst you can send tracks, albums and playlists to the PCH 200 you get no feedback on the Kinsky desktop as to which track is playing, and the PCH 200 doesn't appear to be picking up any meta data form the Twonky tracks so there is no info in the PCH 200 front panel. I'm not sure if this is a Kinsky problem as the Eyecon controller doesn't show any info either. A couple of possibilities here - perhaps it could be fixed in the settings of the Media Receivers tab in Twonky, perhaps the UPNP/DLNA standard does not provide a mechanism for this sort of feedback, or if a mechanism exists the PCH 200 doesn't use it.

Anyway for the moment I'm just happy that I can play songs through my stereo without firing up the projector. If anyone has any other ideas or experiences just post a reply.

Cheers
Gary

[dieten2000]

Very good and consistent description, thank you.

I think, it is a general issue when playing via UPnP from the network: the Song information (artist, song) won't be displayed in readable format on the C200 LCD. It is only a long number, the Metadata information, (which you can see as well in foobar2000, if you select to display metadata information).

You can use other Control Points as well. I've used Cidero for example. I noticed kind of undeterministic behaviour after some times: cannot stop and start again, delay in accepting commands. Could be with Cidero itself.

I've choosen, since I need it anyway, to purchase an extra little HDMI Monitor to put for that in place. I am waiting for the delivery, thus I don't have any practical experiences yet. (But there are best experiences from other users - thats why I decided to do it as well.)

[null_dev]

Thanks for that information, I'll try some other control points. I agree that sometimes there are delays or tracks get skipped. On my system I was rebuilding the RAID array whilst testing so I thought some of the problems were due to the system not being as responsive. I'll keep testing.

Gary

(01-14-2011 09:37 AM)dieten2000 Wrote:  Very good and consistent description, thank you.

I think, it is a general issue when playing via UPnP from the network: the Song information (artist, song) won't be displayed in readable format on the C200 LCD. It is only a long number, the Metadata information, (which you can see as well in foobar2000, if you select to display metadata information).

You can use other Control Points as well. I've used Cidero for example. I noticed kind of undeterministic behaviour after some times: cannot stop and start again, delay in accepting commands. Could be with Cidero itself.

I've choosen, since I need it anyway, to purchase an extra little HDMI Monitor to put for that in place. I am waiting for the delivery, thus I don't have any practical experiences yet. (But there are best experiences from other users - thats why I decided to do it as well.)

[rafdalb]

Hello,

are you able to play flac files, or other type of lossless format? I'm fighting with Twonky/QNAP + C200 but, even with 6.0.30 flac files are not played. This seems to be a C200 limitation because, with e.g. plugplayer on Iphone I'm able to play them.

Thanks,
Raffaele.

[dieten2000]

Yes, it should play FLAC. Please read the other threads with FLAC topics. It should also play APE and understand CUE, but I haven't tested so far with success. (As I've understood it's the first implementation of APE support and there are still some issues with the current firmware.)

[null_dev]

Sorry I'm not using flac files on my system so I can't really comment.

Gary

(01-16-2011 11:47 PM)rafdalb Wrote:  Hello,

are you able to play flac files, or other type of lossless format? I'm fighting with Twonky/QNAP + C200 but, even with 6.0.30 flac files are not played. This seems to be a C200 limitation because, with e.g. plugplayer on Iphone I'm able to play them.

Thanks,
Raffaele.

[rafdalb]

The only thread I found suggests to rename the .flac file to .mp3, even using flac compression. In this case it works but I't not the best approach. Are you aware of other threads where the flac + upnp issue is solved without renaming files?

Thanks a lot in advance for your help,
Raffaele.

---

Another consideration is that if you use a remote controller you don't have any information on the file you're playing on popcorn neither on the controller nor on popcorn display/tv.

I've my Samsung TV having a upnp renderer and, from upnp protocol prospective it works perfectly. I see the exact name of the file I'm playing on the TV and I see the time progress on the upnp controller. Unfortunately both the audio quality is not so good and the flac support is missing (I would say as well as C200, but I'm still trying to solve the issue).

[dieten2000]

(01-20-2011 12:19 AM)rafdalb Wrote:  The only thread I found suggests to rename the .flac file to .mp3, even using flac compression. In this case it works but I't not the best approach. Are you aware of other threads where the flac + upnp issue is solved without renaming files?

Ah, sorry, I did not answer precisely. The problem is not FLAC not playing from the C200 at all but not being played via UPnP. It will be played via SMB. Don't know if renaming to .mp3 is the solution.

Quote:Another consideration is that if you use a remote controller you don't have any information on the file you're playing on popcorn neither on the controller nor on popcorn display/tv.

I've my Samsung TV having a upnp renderer and, from upnp protocol prospective it works perfectly. I see the exact name of the file I'm playing on the TV and I see the time progress on the upnp controller. Unfortunately both the audio quality is not so good and the flac support is missing (I would say as well as C200, but I'm still trying to solve the issue).

With Cidero Remote Controller I can play a file on C200 (but not FLAC). On the LCD and on the screen only the metadata is to be seen, not name of artist and song. Thus if it displays the name on the samsung it must obviously be the implementation on the C200, and its not a problem of the UPnP Server.

[rafdalb]

The only issue of the FLAC/SMB is that, apart from using NMTRemote for Iphone, you need to have the TV switched on in order to play files. Furthermore the playlist management is much easier with a upnp controller. Because, for example you can create the playlist on the controller (plugplayer is able to do that) and use just it.

As alternative, maybe audio Airplay would be useful, even if I don't think it will never be possible using lossless codecs, because as far as I remember the only lossless format supported by iDevices is Apple Lossless, that is the only one that should not be supported by C200.

Thanks,
Raffaele.

[Budgie]

(01-16-2011 11:47 PM)rafdalb Wrote:  Hello,

are you able to play flac files, or other type of lossless format? I'm fighting with Twonky/QNAP + C200 but, even with 6.0.30 flac files are not played. This seems to be a C200 limitation because, with e.g. plugplayer on Iphone I'm able to play them.

Thanks,
Raffaele.

Hi,
I have an A110 and this has been fine playing mp3 files stored on my Qnap and streamed by Twonky, but a pain because I have to have TV on even though I only use it for music. Recently I have been ripping my classical CDs to flac files and these will not play on A110. (OK they will play using SMB or NFS but that is no use to me as I use custom tree views on Twonky.

I thought a C200 might have fixed these problems so have asked questions here in advance of any purchasing decision. I conclude there is no reliable network or browser based control for the NMT device and nobody seems willing or able to sort out the flac problem. I have now purchased a Linn Sneaky DS which plays the flac files from Twonky and works well with Kinsky Desktop.

If you do find reliable solutions please share the info.
Budgie

[achtman]

I have now spent 3 days with this problem before finally solving it partially. Yes, you can stream FLAC by SMB but not by Twonky. There is a general incompatibility between my A-210 and Twonky for FLAC, and this is true when I install Twonky Server on a PC as well. The solution is to change the clients.db file on the QNAP for the renderer type you are using. There is a Syabas Firmware renderer type which you can manually assign to the PCH or you can change the DLNS generic 1.0. In the section within the clients.db file for that renderer, change audio/Flac to read audio/x-ogg
The result is that Twonky thinks it is sending ogg format and knows that the PCH can handle ogg but it sends a FLAC file which the PCH recognises correctly. This works with all formats from 16 to 24 bit and 44 to 192 kHz.
Unfortunately I have yet to find a controller for the iPad which works consistently. I had several working for 20 minutes and since they have all stopped working.
Mark

[Budgie]

(04-04-2011 08:39 AM)achtman Wrote:  I have now spent 3 days with this problem before finally solving it partially. Yes, you can stream FLAC by SMB but not by Twonky. There is a general incompatibility between my A-210 and Twonky for FLAC, and this is true when I install Twonky Server on a PC as well. The solution is to change the clients.db file on the QNAP for the renderer type you are using. There is a Syabas Firmware renderer type which you can manually assign to the PCH or you can change the DLNS generic 1.0. In the section within the clients.db file for that renderer, change audio/Flac to read audio/x-ogg
The result is that Twonky thinks it is sending ogg format and knows that the PCH can handle ogg but it sends a FLAC file which the PCH recognises correctly. This works with all formats from 16 to 24 bit and 44 to 192 kHz.
Unfortunately I have yet to find a controller for the iPad which works consistently. I had several working for 20 minutes and since they have all stopped working.
Mark

Hi Mark and thanks for the reply. This technique for getting PCH to play flac from Twonky has possible implications for other client devices but I must try it as a possible intermediate step. The real problem is that there is nobody working on a solution, perhaps because PCH/NMT interests are in their own software and Twonky is seen as the competition.

For me the control software is also very important as I really hate having to turn on TV screen in order to play music,but I have not yet been able to get Kinsky Desktop to work reliably with any player but the Linn Sneaky.

Will post if I have anything to add.
Thanks again,
Budgie

[achtman]

I'm giving up on the A-210 just because of the problems with controllers for DLNA. I found a solution for the TV as well, which was to buy a 7 inch LCD from coollcd in China. Since then I am independent of the TV and have been listening to a lot of music via the optical TosLink directly to a Rega DAC. The result is that the PCH continues to have minor problems with Twonky, and doesn't sound quite as good as an HDI Dune Lite. It does sound a lot better than a WD HD Live and transmits music well up to 192 kHz either by wired or wireless. But the lack of control by the iPad and the slightly poorer music quality, even in pass-through mode, have convinced me to give up. I've bitten the bullet and have ordered a Sneaky in the hope that it is more mature. How good is the Sneaky for you and why are you playing with the PCH if you have a Sneaky?
Mak