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Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
02-22-2011, 12:51 AM
Post: #1
Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
Same as the other thread regarding the video streaming buffer, I have the same issue with Revision3 app -> HDNation, all very stutter. Have no problem with PC/MAC, something is really wrong here. =) Someone please advise if there are any solution for that.

Cheers,
M
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02-22-2011, 04:06 AM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2011 04:06 AM by chris57.)
Post: #2
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
No, its been reported. It is not the same as other apps at all. It is a very noticeable micro stutter on Revision3 podcasts.

A400: SD Card(Apps), HDMI C200: USB(Apps), BD ROM (SH-B083L(SB01)), HDMI
CAT6 Wired Network: TV Panasonic TX-P42G20, HP ProCurve 1400-8G, Netgear GS-608/605, Synology CS407
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02-22-2011, 09:39 AM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2011 09:49 AM by Adrgha.)
Post: #3
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
Hmmm well, that's weird, because the Revision 3 stutter was introduced in beta2 if I'm not mistaken.

What firmware are you running? Did you grab the RC when QA was testing it last week, by any chance? Or perhaps you're talking about a different type of stuttering all together?

17TB WHS 2011 w/FlexRaid -> PCH C200: Hitachi 2,5" 160GB & LG CH08 BD-ROM -> Onkyo TX-SR507B -> Pioneer KURO PDP-LX5090
[Image: watched-fanart.jpg]
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02-22-2011, 09:49 AM
Post: #4
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
It could be a bandwidth issue or the throughput between the servers and your LAN.
If it's the same as in the video streaming buffer thread then network is the first place I would look.


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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02-22-2011, 09:50 AM
Post: #5
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
if the rx window is a little low for how far you are from the server it can look like a stutter with higher bitrate videos
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02-22-2011, 11:07 AM
Post: #6
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
Well, I have 100MBit connection fiber-optic at home, and I checked my Router (Linksys WRT-610N) it appears that I have giga connection with my C-200, that's why I'm not sure what causing it. When I say stutter, It looks like the buffering is not fast enough for the video to playback, so that it plays for like 4 secs then stop, another 3 secs then stop, not usable at all. Please advise folks =)
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02-22-2011, 11:21 AM
Post: #7
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
any difference if you set the C200 to also do 100Mbit?
what is the WAN port speed setting on the Linksys WRT-610N to your fiber-optic gateway? 100Mb or 1GB?


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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02-22-2011, 12:13 PM
Post: #8
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
He suffers the same problem as me. I reported on the CNET thread earlier. Eric (from Syabas) contacted with me in PM he said they will try to improve the buffering performance.

Media player 01: PCH-A100, 160 GB 2,5" WD HDD, Composite, CAT5 wired.
Media player 02: PCH-C200, 320 GB 2,5" Samsung HDD, LG CH10-LS20 BD, HDMI, CAT5e wired.
Display: Samsung LE-40R88BD
A/V receiver: Yamaha RXV-630 coax conn.
NAS: Synology CS407e, DS411j 8 TB (RAID5)
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02-22-2011, 12:42 PM
Post: #9
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
Hi, I don't want to set the C-200 to 100MB as I will get lag on Movie Streaming from my NAS (QNAP). All others including WAN set to 1000MB. Hope we have a solution soon. =)
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02-22-2011, 01:16 PM
Post: #10
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
(02-22-2011 09:39 AM)Adrgha Wrote:  Hmmm well, that's weird, because the Revision 3 stutter was introduced in beta2 if I'm not mistaken.

What firmware are you running? Did you grab the RC when QA was testing it last week, by any chance? Or perhaps you're talking about a different type of stuttering all together?

He's talking about a 3 - 4 sec stutter, not the micro stutter we are seeing in beta.

A400: SD Card(Apps), HDMI C200: USB(Apps), BD ROM (SH-B083L(SB01)), HDMI
CAT6 Wired Network: TV Panasonic TX-P42G20, HP ProCurve 1400-8G, Netgear GS-608/605, Synology CS407
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02-22-2011, 01:27 PM
Post: #11
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
I see. Well, I don't have any such issues with buffering stutter in any apps and I'm on an ADSL connection, so it's really odd that someone with FTTH 100Mbit struggles. Poor peering to the US maybe?

17TB WHS 2011 w/FlexRaid -> PCH C200: Hitachi 2,5" 160GB & LG CH08 BD-ROM -> Onkyo TX-SR507B -> Pioneer KURO PDP-LX5090
[Image: watched-fanart.jpg]
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02-22-2011, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2011 01:44 PM by mar_tin.)
Post: #12
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
If that would be the case then I can't stream any better on my PC either. See the video I made in the CNET thread. The second half shows the same video played from my PC. I can stream the same video shown in the CNET thread on my work connection which has only 2 MBit download speed. (Of course the initial prebuffering takes longer, but then it plays OK.)

Media player 01: PCH-A100, 160 GB 2,5" WD HDD, Composite, CAT5 wired.
Media player 02: PCH-C200, 320 GB 2,5" Samsung HDD, LG CH10-LS20 BD, HDMI, CAT5e wired.
Display: Samsung LE-40R88BD
A/V receiver: Yamaha RXV-630 coax conn.
NAS: Synology CS407e, DS411j 8 TB (RAID5)
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02-22-2011, 01:41 PM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2011 01:43 PM by Adrgha.)
Post: #13
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
Well, the C-200 has a very limited buffer. If you load a YouTube video and press pause, you'll that see the buffer indicator stops up pretty quickly. The higher the resolution of the video, the less it can buffer. 1080p videos only buffer a few secs. (1080p doesn't work on the current YT version though, it's a bug). I assume the buffer on any PC app would be much greater. It would be neat if they could somehow make the 200 series buffer to the internal HDD/USB mem. We all know some of YouTube's servers can be pretty damn slow sometimes, and watching videos when this happens with such a limited buffer can be annoying. When watching stuff on my PC I usually just let it buffer 100% before I start the video to avoid annoying pauses.

Not saying there isn't anything wrong, or room for improvement. I just find it peculiar, is all. Revision3, Cnet and YouTube (unless I run into an aforementioned slow server) HD are fine for me. Except, the new beta rounds have introduced a new bug where Revision3's HD streams micro stutter, and this hasn't been fixed yet (RC2 now).

17TB WHS 2011 w/FlexRaid -> PCH C200: Hitachi 2,5" 160GB & LG CH08 BD-ROM -> Onkyo TX-SR507B -> Pioneer KURO PDP-LX5090
[Image: watched-fanart.jpg]
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02-23-2011, 06:36 AM (This post was last modified: 02-24-2011 04:25 AM by accident.)
Post: #14
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
This may help, but if not it's a good general knowledge for long distance internet speed of how to tune rx window to your homes need.

background:
tcp/ip works where you send some data, wait for the ack that it was recieved ok (or to send it again) and then send nore. As your further and further away from the server your talking with, what happens is that server sends you a little of the video and waits for you to say send more. Your reply to say send+the time for the data to actually reach you takes longer than the the amount of data you have buffered to play. It doesn't take that much distance before your in a situation where your not getting data fast enough to keep up with the bitrate of the internet video because the server is waiting for your reply that its ok. You do not get a steady stream of data with tcp/ip.

RX Window is one of many things that can be adjusted so you can tell the server how much to send you before waiting. It's actually only part of the setting as there is a second parameter you can't adjust which is a multiplier to the number but that requires a lot more memory to buffer the data at the kernel level so it's not surprising this is not available in the pch. Modern computers come with better settings, fast start, and even congestion controls (which is also why you can copy near gig speed to your nas btw).

To tell what your rx window should be for internet video, here is a quick guide.

- Using the Tekzilla RSS feed for hd, I found the server I would be directed to is videos.revision3.com.
- Using my desktop to ping that sub-domain I find that I have a 14ms round trip ping time.
- Using quicktime I can see the video bitrate is 1.98Mbps (or 1900kbps).
- a little math we take 1900*14/8=3325
- In the pch, if my RX window is lower than this, I WILL stutter.

Of course first you need an internet connection that has 2Mbps download speed free to even try to not stutter or pick a lower quality video.

EDIT: nobody actually says what the auto setting does. If there is some form of congestion control and auto allows the window to float that would be the best setting to use.
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[+] 2 users say Thank You to accident for this post
02-23-2011, 03:57 PM
Post: #15
RE: Youtube, Revision3 apps all stutter !!
Hi,

I have we have the case closed now, problem solved. I just went to the settings page and set the TCP RX Windows to 0 - Auto. Everything running really smoothly =) So TCP receive windows was the issue, don't know the reason but hey it's fixed.

regards,
M
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