Future of NMTs?

[defected07]

Hey

I currently have a A-110, but wondering if anyone knows what the future of NMTs will hold? Out of the box BluRay players? Faster processors/more RAM? Combining their abilities to play lots of HD media store locally, as well as streaming Movie/TV interfaces, like Boxee?

I saw someone mentioned a new device like the NMTs, but was more of a PC with an Atom chip, and meant for XBMC..

Can you guys help provide a list of all the available NMTs, plus bookshelf devices with more cutting edge technology?

I know of..

-eGreat
-HDX1000
-Popcorn Hour

-Zotac ZBOX

I'll update this post with links/images/descriptions of these devices as others can help me out.

Thanks

[chris57]

This is the NMT forum so we will happily provide information on NMT's but if you want general information on all media players its best to try a forum where all types of players are discussed. Although they do tend to be a little biased IMO.

You seem to have missed a generation of NMT's from your list. We have the C200/A210 now which has a cpu roughly three times faster than the 100 series. Plus it brings back features like youtube and has other such as BD playback which the 100 series doesnt have. It has Flash and an onboard Jukebox called NMJ that doesnt require a PC to get the data from Imdb.

Visit the updated PCH website for more details and pictures:
http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/

Currently PCH NMT's run Sigma chips which are the best for picture quality but the poorest for support from the manufacturer. That's why it takes Syabas time to make the chip work as they are either waiting for Sigm to release code or having to write their own to get round Sigmas poor support.

Intel chip players are better supported and have things like XBMC and widgets but they dont have the playback quality of the Sigma chips. PCH have announced that they will be developing a player with an Intel chip. That may come before the next Sigma chipped player, which we are hoping will be a 8910 Sigma chip player on a itx board so that current C200 owners could just update the board. Hell they could even release USB3 update packs like PC case manufacturers are currently doing.

[defected07]

Yeah I didn't mean to leave out the 200 series--I'm well aware of them. I guess I'm curious about rumors for the next PCH--so it'll have a Sigma chip for video playback, and Intel chip for running apps and such? That'd be pretty cool. Think they'll start including a BluRay player--not just a slot capable of having one?

I wasn't aware manufacturers were releasing USB3 updates for cases--that's good to know.

[jasch]

I don't see a BluRay player as a strong option in years to come. Everything is going digital these days, people don't want to purchase discs, or handle optical media. People want to purchase or rent their movies online, or stream them.

People I know that have a Bluray player, have the same movies they purchased when they got the unit... you have to many ways to get your HD online now (iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, Voodoo, Usenet, Torrents) that it doesn't make sense...

If you still want to have your BluRays, you can still rip them and store them on your Hard Drive... much better than handling a bluray disc and getting it dirty or scratching it.

[defected07]

Yeah, good point jasch. Plus they'll just bring up the price of these devices. I love the community here, but do like the idea of a fully functional PC (or close to it) as a HTPC. I'll have to check out the 200s, but in the future I'd like to get rid of cable TV, and just rely on streaming services plus my digital media collection--and I'd like one device to deliver it all.

Something like the Xtreamer Ultra

[chris57]

Don't even use that word on this forum!!! Those guys are the scum of the earth, they are a disgrace! Dont dare say anything on their forum though or you'll find yourself on their growing banned list.

From early days they have been ripping off others material and even today are still doing it. Plus if you are from the USA you may never receive what you order:-
http://www.mpcclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26702

As far a Bluray it will be here for years to come, HD video that is streamed is nothing like the quality of a Bluray. That doesnt mean that there wont be alternative options though so that those who dont want a disc player dont have to have one.

[defected07]

Well, good to know. Is there anyone comparable to Xtreamer that you'd recommend? If I don't stay around with Popcorn Hour, I may just "build" one, like the Zotac ZBOX.

But I have a softspot with Popcorn Hour. I don't need BluRAY, as I'm more than happy with HD media...would just like a combination of Boxee and PCH in one device--rather than having to buy multiple devices.

[Zod]

I'm interested to see the next PCH. I currently use an a110 which it turned out I only bought a few months before the c200 came out. I've been thinking about replacing it, but I don't want the same thing to happen, so I'll probably wait until a new model is out so I'm not behind the curve.

An Intel model would be interesting. I bought my a110 to replace XBMC (mainly because the xbox1 can't do HD video, well not unless its an uncompressed 720p avi, which is pretty useless). I really liked XBMC. The one thing that drives me nuts on the a110 is the slow responsiveness in the menus. And that you can't scroll down a list of directory/files like in xbmc. You have to keep going to the next page, so if you have a folder consisting of 300 folders of music albums, it takes forever to find the album you want to play (I'm assuming this must be better on the c200).

Anyways I'd love to see a PCH that's been modified to use XBMC. I love the xbmc interface.

[crimper]

Board upgrade option for C200 owners would be totally awesome!!! Dune's promise of upgrade was perhaps the only advantage they seemed to have, at least in my opinion, over PCH when I was considering both. Please make it happen .

[TheAxledentalDJ]

Board upgrade options sounds like an good idea, but depends on the price for the upgrade. Dune is doing it but you have to send the whole product in. They don't seem to want the users to do it. I can see why, but they should still offer it for the advanced DIY.
But then again, if PCH does release a new product with the SMP 8910, it should have a new case design and built-in 802.11n and I'm sure others would list right away what else it should have. So, in the end, maybe its not worth offering an upgrade to an itx board option for the C-200 and just go directly to a new gen model but offer it as a whole unit or a DIY kit like the B110 was. Just an idea.

[choochoo7777]

if they could make one of these run like a boxee box... it would be game over ... or even capable of running boxee front end. My boxee box took about 2 hours to find/organize/list/cover art/scrape 2 full ReadyNas Pro Pioneers full of matroskas (about 3500 movies, video clips, photos, and music). I hit play ..it plays INSTANTLY. 200 bucks at best buy. if it breaks ... i drive 2 blocks and I get another ..that day. I don't get insulted with having to spend 50-80 dollars sending it back over seas.


I sold my c200 finally on ebayhaha. I got tired of having to read about how to fix this ..or use this ... or not use this when using that. I even explained to the guy before I sold it ... that it was no picnic to use ...and yes he is scratching his head now too.

I can say the Intel Atom would be a welcome addition to the PCH family and would lure people like myself back. Sigma chips are rubbish in comparison to what else is available presently.

My HTC phone has more balls than most any media player available ...dont you think there is something terribly wrong with that statement?

I think there are some evil geniuses behind the PCH ... you guys are quite brilliant at squeezing out every little drop of power ... next machine you make ... build something that isn't struggling from the gate to make everything work ... put some dual core ATOM or Tegra2 chip in the thing ... that will run in any environment without a hiccup.

Sure ... powersaving features are important .... all the green stuff (yawn) ... the thing needs to fly through files , play all audio/video, transfer files to hard drives at whatever speed that said hard drive can read/write over the network ....and have a REAL networking card with its own processor. Probably could use a sigma to do the video ..but damn fellas ..spend 3 more dollars and put another NIC in the thing with some balls... afterall this is a NETWORKED media tank ... not nintendo DSI looking at webpages with opera.

So ..the machine should have networking capabilities to stream a bluray from a computer to this device over the home network without any issue in other words.

Im not advocating any product in particular ... I am using boxee box as an example of how smoothly the PCH should run ... that is if you want mainstream people to buy this. I mentioned the same thing over a year ago and was laughed at saying the boxee box would fail. Think again. I also predicted that Televisions would have the ability to play matroska over the network ... guess what ..they do now. Hell ..even some higher end home theater receivers have that ability now. Even homebrew on the PS3 can play matroska.

There is no reason why a company with the sole purpose of creating the ultimate media device could not beef it up, polish it, and market it as such. If netgear can put an atom in a box with wireless ..and memory card reader for 200 dollars ..offer toll free 24/7 support ..and the ability to take it to any retailer that sells it .. PCH should be able to build twice the machine at the same price being you have no expensive toll free support, middlemen, or even import tariffs ...and thats just the truth.

I do hope you create something to stay ahead of the curve ...because its quickly falling behind.

One last thing ... if Boxee is ever incorporated in a television ... there will be ZERO need for any media player at all. Maybe PCH should work on a partnership with Vizio or something ... I dunno.

I look forward to re-visiting PCH when they build such a machine.

[halfelite]

(04-11-2011 07:32 AM)choochoo7777 Wrote:  if they could make one of these run like a boxee box... it would be game over ... or even capable of running boxee front end.

I sold my c200 finally haha. I got tired of having to read about how to fix this ..or use this ... or not use this when using this.

I can say the Intel Atom would be a welcome addition to the PCH family and would lure people like myself back. Sigma chips are rubbish in comparison to what else is available presently.

My HTC phone has more balls than most any media player available ...dont you think there is something terribly wrong with that statement?

I think there are some evil geniuses behind the PCH ... you guys are quite brilliant at squeezing out every little drop of power ... next machine you make ... build something that isn't struggling from the gate to make everything work ... put some dual core ATOM or Tegra2 chip in the thing ... that will run in any environment without a hiccup.

So you want sub par PQ for speed of the box? no thanks i will stick with sigma chips for that reason alone. Intel atoms and tegra2 which cant handle 1080p streams all that well both have lower PQ then sigma chips. Still amazes me how many people put a UI before the actual playback ability of a box.

[choochoo7777]

are you kidding me? I like the ability to play a movie without having to fumble around through a bunch of forums. Thats like saying an AMD core is better at playing Crysis than Intel ...or ATI is better than Nvidia ... they each might have their strengths ..but there is not one perfect solution.

There is no difference how the picture looks @ 1080p using a standard 1080p 12gig DTS encode between the popcorn hour c200 and the boxee box ..and I should know as I had them both running through my receiver going to the 240hz samsung LED. One on HDMI input 1 and the other on HDMI 2...there is ZERO difference in picture quality. So i dunno who you are trying to mislead? I dont recall a sigma chip in the ps3 either and its bluray quality is considered the benchmark.

NOTE: It may be different going straight to the TV from the media player... but most anyone with one of these media players has it run through a surround receiver with some sort of video processing.

THe c200 is a klunky dinosaur ... fuck my HTC phone with HDMI out will play a matroska just as well as the boxee or c200 and its what ... a half an inch thick ...4 inches wide and about 6 inches tall?. More importantly ..it does it just as fast as the boxee ... and much faster than the c200. Google Android can probably be thanked for that. Matter of fact ... id bet my home that I could get this Android 4g phone to do anything the c200 can do with a few simple searches on the android marketplace.

You aren't exactly mainstream either...and its fine for the tech guru. If PCH wants to become mainstream the next device needs to be WAAAY more polished and WAAAY WAAAY WAAAY more powerful. Maybe they could incorporate some flavor of Android and a Tegra2 with 8gigs of ram or something.

Now if you are talking about blu-rays ... ill give you that ... sigma is designed for bluray play ..and it does that well ..but the last time I checked ... my matroskas are not blurays. It does not engine network transfers ..was NOT designed as such.

You could have a dozen burr/brown audio engines on your receiver ..if youre playing 320bitrate mp3's ..the burr/browns are null. If youre playing a lossless encode...then yeah they are warranted.

Picture quality comes down to processing power/encode bitrate/network speed/ram allocation/disc read/write speed and monitor quality ...when talking about encodes ...and thats a fact that has been discussed over and over and over on many of the scene groups...matter of fact its to the point of getting flamed every time a noob brings up the topic anymore.

C200 does lots of stuff ... but nothing perfectly. Its obvious because what works for some, doesn't work for others ... a simple read through these support forums points that out quickly. Boxee Box plays movies/music/streams flawlessly with well over 1million users.... have an issue with Boxee Box ...call 1800blahblah ..and if you happen to find a major bug ..one of boxee's software engineers will call you directly and open real-time dialogue ... yes ...all for 200 bucks. They will often reward major bug finders as well... I can assure you they don't charge you to send in your device ... if something is wrong they will send you a UPS label or tell you to exchange it wherever you purchased it. Im not even sure PCH has a support phone number do they? Nah I didn't think so.

Another point ..a ps3 with homebrew ... 199 dollars .. plays blurays, streams any video format known to man ... and can play video games ... the possibilities are endless really. Folks havent even realized the ps3 potential for homebrew apps yet. People are fearful to publish any news about it presently ... but they are among us ...they are out there. When the lawsuit gets tossed and the Law of the Land says when you buy something .. you own it ..and all the hardware inside it ..and are legally able to use it how you see fit ... then I think its a distinct possiblity you may find the cell processor king and ps3 will be king of the pile for that very reason... and not king for video games ..but king of its possiblity to do everything. I personally don't care for Sony, but you have to hand it to them ..when they designed the PS3 ..the design spec was way ahead of the curve ... and there is literally years of headroom in the hardware for seemingly endless expansion and development (years in tech is a lifetime nowadays). Thats why I mentioned in my previous post about the c200 hardware was already being stressed even kinda doing what it was advertised to do. No one can deny that ... you can make excuses why it doesnt do this well ..or that well... when the guts are seriously lacking... only get so much juice out of a go-cart motor ya know.

I guess to sum it up ... I feel like the c200 is a 1bedroom home with 1 bathroom and one is starting a family. It will get outgrown with 1 child ... and the c200 is trying to pack a family of 9 in the 1 bedroom home. The boxee box is like a 3 or 4 bedroom home with 2 kids..some room to expand ... the ps3 is like Bill Gates home haha (no pun intended but its the largest home i can think of presently) ... you can keep filling and filling and filling it with kids ..and even grand kids ..and there amazingly is still room left to expand your family.

[halfelite]

The Sigma chip is no saint but it does a better job at PQ then the intel does. network speed has no play in PQ quality bit in bit out if you drop a bit it doesnt show on the tv and you get a skip. Again processing power plays not in PQ if your cpu cant keep up you will get blended frames but thats about it. We are talking SD content Not everyone has everything in 1080p picture quality. Actually most main stream people probably have mostly SD content to go along with your mainstream.

And what HTC phone supports native mkv support without using rockplayer And again rock player doesnt support HDMI out so how are you playing 1080p mkv on your HTC. And if we get into hacked HDMI drivers and kernels that goes beyond the realm of mainstream.

This is the main problem everyone always assume the next great player is what suits there needs everyones needs is different the INTEL chip for what I want blows chunks I would take the sigma chip over it. For what you want seems the intel chip is a dream. These pointless debates about what is the better player will never end everyone has a different goal in the end.

PS. if you sold your pch why are you lurking in the forums just to stir up drama? Im all up for debates but the media player debates never end well.

[chris57]

For me picture quality is number one, I buy a media player to play media not for gimmicking extras.

Intel chips are great for the extras and gimmicks like widgets etc. but are poor for picture quality and have problems with bitstreaming last time I looked. They convert to PCM they dont bitstream plus there's the fact that 1080p on an Intel/nvidia chip has had problems.

So its Sigma all the way until a competitor comes along.

My PCH media player plays everything on my server every time. But that's because I dont put garbage files on my server.

The NMT is not aimed at the dumbed down plug'n'play market, that's where the Popbox comes in. The Popbox is a Boxxeebox comparible, not the 200 series which blows away the BoxxeeBox on high quality lossless rips, yes even MKV but also supports PGS, and BDMV etc.