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dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
02-01-2012, 07:31 AM
Post: #16
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
Thnx team on suggestions!! I will borrow dacmagic or some external dac to hear it myself!
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02-01-2012, 08:22 AM
Post: #17
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
there are a lot of affordable receivers that use the same or even better DAC chip as DACmagic...
The DacMagic is one of the many DACs equipped with highly popular Wolfson 192 kHz/24-Bit DAC (WM8740)..
My 5.1 Receiver has Texas Instruments Burr-Brown 192 kHz/24-Bit DACs (PCM1690) for All Channels and is about 30% cheaper and does a wagon load of extra functionality ...
What I think makes the dacmagic experience sound "better" is the Texas Instruments TMS 320VC5501 DSP upsampling to 24bit 192kHz.
If you need or believe in up sampling....

Here is a fantastic inventory on what brands use which DAC and how they measure up.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1230824

don't fall for audiophile hypes.. it's a waist of money.


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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02-01-2012, 05:07 PM
Post: #18
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
amp is a nice high quality amp....
So buying a low end receiver possible lowers your enyoment when listening too stereo music .... The analogue parts of receivers do make a difference

Same counts for a DAC the analogue parts of the device make a difference .... which chip you exactly have can not be the breaking point ... There are even tests that where done on things like SACD and PCM and they found out that there was no real difference ...


If you go just for stereo i would go for a DAC else i would go for a receiver or a processor. Then you can also use better for surround sound in the future. ..
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02-01-2012, 05:32 PM
Post: #19
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
(02-01-2012 08:22 AM)Willem53 Wrote:  don't fall for audiophile hypes.. it's a waist of money.

One of the better pieces of advice in this thread so far (first time I've heard balanced circuits be referred to as "stabilised"...)

Important things beyond the actual circuit topology and component selection are circuit board layout (good ground plane, good isolation of digital and analogue circuits, sufficient decoupling etc.) and a decent power supply (linear is good/switch mode is absolutely fine if filtered properly).

You are to a large extent at the mercy of the skill of the designer who is at the mercy of budgets and design freedom (which may not be great in pile em’ high, stuff em’ with features type products).

That said, I would wager that it should be possible to go to market with a decent stereo DAC for ~£150 retail (accounting for volume sales) and probably not much more for a multi-channel DAC stage in a receiver (although clearly the designer is faced with a tougher brief if quality is going to be maintained). Anything beyond would be rapid diminishing returns.
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02-01-2012, 08:21 PM
Post: #20
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
(02-01-2012 05:32 PM)john_C200 Wrote:  That said, I would wager that it should be possible to go to market with a decent stereo DAC for ~£150 retail (accounting for volume sales) and probably not much more for a multi-channel DAC stage in a receiver (although clearly the designer is faced with a tougher brief if quality is going to be maintained). Anything beyond would be rapid diminishing returns.

Dacmagic is twice that price... and the rate of return is subjective..
I'v invested in 6 boxes that each hold a set of decent Bower & Wilkins speakers. Testing receivers against those made me come to the conclusion the added functionality and usefulness on the NMT went to Onkyo and not hearing any significant differences made me go for the baseline model.


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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02-01-2012, 09:21 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2012 10:32 PM by megalive.)
Post: #21
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
Well

I have home made speakers ....

Whe i bought my onkyo tx-nr801 i listened too 5-6 receivers .... i noticed the difference in detail between the step in and high end model receivers ....
And that i why i bought this one .... yet it was at that time my top budget .... I also listened too audiophil setups with LP and stereo amp with seperate pre amp for LP
that specific setup in the specific room sounds perfect .... so much detail .... Yet it some kind of setup i never wanted too have ....

Now i got a high end amp from yamaha from previous generation (i also wanted too have the features on this device).... I listenend too it in a audio shop ... i could not listen too the right other amps too make a very good choice but i liked too sound so i bought it .... But now something even most of friends did not believe .... I have voltage meter and ampere meter for adding between the power socket and the power plug.... i had a cheap belkin power protector and i had some amps being used and then i placed moster power power socket ... and my amps went higher in usage but the sound was also different ... But after a while you do not hear the difference any more ....

Sound differences like detail you will only hear when directly comparing all amps directly too each other .... and it is important that you do not spend more then you will too spend or you intended too ....

Audio quality is like VERY MUCH MORE money for very little extra .... or even better the quote from willem53 ....
Quote: don't fall for audiophile hypes.. it's a waist of money.

But when you listen and like it really much got the money well go for it ....

Cheap improvement that make your audio quality good

- Buy good speakers (good enough detail and frequency bandwidth )
- buy a nice amp / receiver
- use a good source

and do not go for all audio special things like

Audio cables which have a filter in it ... (yes these exist and ofcourse it sounds different because of the filter)
Buy extreme expensive HDMI cables .... (digital signal ... when you have no jitter do not go for a better cable
Expensive equipment which does not add much ....
SACD player (yes it is one the things that is not really adding something ...)

When you are happy with your audio quality stop investing .... you need too spend a lot more money for very little extra ....

BTW
for a cheap DAC (80 euro) with 4 stars from HIFI http://www.whathifi.com/review/cyp-au-d3-dac
a more expensive DAC (150 euro) http://www.whathifi.com/review/cyp-au-d150
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02-02-2012, 08:07 AM
Post: #22
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
Thnx everyone on valuble suggestions and fantastic infos. Certanly i wont fall on audiofille hypes and i dont want (and dont have) to spend much extra mony on something like dacmagic. But dac will be. I allready have new stereo integrated amp with only stereo speakers. There is one dac ive been looking:

http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cg...hread=7103
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02-02-2012, 08:16 AM
Post: #23
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
How much? The Citypulse Audio DA-7.2x is a great DAC at $500, you can get the CA at £230 which is pretty easily modifiable to sound way better than its asking price, there's the really good Musical Fidelity V-DAC II at £199 and the brand new Schiit Audio BIFROST DAC at a bargain $349.

Or, if you're into DIY, check out the DAC from http://www.fetaudio.com/

I really need to build one of these to add to my collection.

Thoughts on Syabas support? Share them here
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02-02-2012, 09:13 AM
Post: #24
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
(02-02-2012 08:16 AM)plm Wrote:  I really need to build one of these to add to my collection.

Big Grin ...No you don't... Big Grin

but if it makes you happy...Wink


PCH-A100/A210/C200/A400 500GB EXT3 HDD<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to the A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.


The inability to setup and configure the NMT should not be disguised as a defect of the box...
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02-02-2012, 01:33 PM
Post: #25
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
(02-02-2012 08:16 AM)plm Wrote:  How much? The Citypulse Audio DA-7.2x is a great DAC at $500, you can get the CA at £230 which is pretty easily modifiable to sound way better than its asking price, there's the really good Musical Fidelity V-DAC II at £199 and the brand new Schiit Audio BIFROST DAC at a bargain $349.

Or, if you're into DIY, check out the DAC from http://www.fetaudio.com/

I really need to build one of these to add to my collection.

Aune x1 dac is 199$

http://shop2.hifidiy.net/index.php?main_...Path=10_31
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02-02-2012, 02:12 PM
Post: #26
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
Hi everyone,

Recently, i wanted to improve my stereo experience with the popcorn C200, so I bought a Musical fidelity VDAC 2 which had very good reviews. And yes the sound improved, got better details and a bit more fluidity.

But, i'm still very disappointed with the DLNA feature of the popcorn C200, it's lacking of reliability, it stops all the time playing, it crashs the PCH, etc,...
Then now I'm going to buy tonight a squeezebox touch. So the Popcorn will be dedicated to play movies and the SB Touch dedicated to play flac files from my NAS.
I will let you know if I can hear any difference between the two, of course i will put the VDAC on the SB Touch.
In My opinion, the SB touch interface is more straightforward to play music and especially all the webradio. I made some simulation with the squeezesoft emulator on my PC, I expect a similar behaviour withe SB Touch.

I will keep you informed.

C200 + 1.5T HDD + BDROM drive > Denon AVR-1910 > Panasonic TX42g20.
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02-02-2012, 02:26 PM
Post: #27
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
(02-02-2012 02:12 PM)niche2000 Wrote:  Hi everyone,

Recently, i wanted to improve my stereo experience with the popcorn C200, so I bought a Musical fidelity VDAC 2 which had very good reviews. And yes the sound improved, got better details and a bit more fluidity.

But, i'm still very disappointed with the DLNA feature of the popcorn C200, it's lacking of reliability, it stops all the time playing, it crashs the PCH, etc,...
Then now I'm going to buy tonight a squeezebox touch. So the Popcorn will be dedicated to play movies and the SB Touch dedicated to play flac files from my NAS.
I will let you know if I can hear any difference between the two, of course i will put the VDAC on the SB Touch.
In My opinion, the SB touch interface is more straightforward to play music and especially all the webradio. I made some simulation with the squeezesoft emulator on my PC, I expect a similar behaviour withe SB Touch.

I will keep you informed.

There should be no sound difference if you use SB Touch just as an audio transport and connect it to DAC digitally via SPDIF.
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02-03-2012, 10:00 PM
Post: #28
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
(02-01-2012 08:21 PM)Willem53 Wrote:  Dacmagic is twice that price... and the rate of return is subjective..

My advice was more along the lines of not spending big bucks (1000s) on exoteric dacs. I wasn't referencing any particular model, just taking into account raw components development and a reasonable return.

Incidentally, it is possible to get the dacmagic for about 200 in the uk and ca are releasing a cheaper unit this year,
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02-03-2012, 10:11 PM
Post: #29
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
(02-02-2012 02:26 PM)Bytec Wrote:  There should be no sound difference if you use SB Touch just as an audio transport and connect it to DAC digitally via SPDIF.

This depends on two things: 1) is how good the clock is in the C-200 versus the (pretty good but not outstanding) clock in the Touch, and therefore how much jitter it introduces into the digital stream, and 2) how good the DAC is at buffering and re-clocking the incoming stream to minimise the impact of said jitter on the stream that actually hits the DAC chip.

Fortunately most modern DACS are really quite good at this but your mileage will vary.

The DAC will have more of an impact on the sound than the source feeding it.

But, from a usability perspective, the Squeezebox Touch is a far, far superior product for playing music.

Thoughts on Syabas support? Share them here
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02-04-2012, 02:57 PM
Post: #30
RE: dac for c-200 or squeezebox touch
(02-03-2012 10:11 PM)plm Wrote:  
(02-02-2012 02:26 PM)Bytec Wrote:  There should be no sound difference if you use SB Touch just as an audio transport and connect it to DAC digitally via SPDIF.

This depends on two things: 1) is how good the clock is in the C-200 versus the (pretty good but not outstanding) clock in the Touch, and therefore how much jitter it introduces into the digital stream, and 2) how good the DAC is at buffering and re-clocking the incoming stream to minimise the impact of said jitter on the stream that actually hits the DAC chip.

Fortunately most modern DACS are really quite good at this but your mileage will vary.

The DAC will have more of an impact on the sound than the source feeding it.

But, from a usability perspective, the Squeezebox Touch is a far, far superior product for playing music.

For what it's worth, I personally agree on all counts - spot on advice.

On the GUI - maybe if we get the 300 series FW on the 200, it will become a more attractive prospect for music playback, but the current UI is inadequate compared with dedicated devices - very frustrating given that all the building blocks are there.
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