1080p/50 file from Panasonic HDC-SD900

[awakener]

Hi,

When I try to play a .mts file from my Panasonic HDC-SD900 (1080p/50) on my PCH C-200 the video stutters and the sound disappears after a few seconds. This file is working fine on a Qnap NMP-1000P.

Can anyone confirm that these file are working correctly on a PCH A-300/ C-300?

[Willem53]

Video cameras have a strange notion of playback compatibility...

could you post a MediaInfo data sheet of a file.

[awakener]

Below the info. If the 300 series can't play these files then the only option will be a Qnap NMP-1000P because it plays these files without any issues.

General
ID : 1 (0x1)
Complete name : C:\Users\emiel.zwart\Desktop\test2\00003.MTS
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 768 MiB
Duration : 4mn 16s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 25.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 28.0 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=24
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 4mn 16s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 23.7 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 26.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 50.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.229
Stream size : 724 MiB (94%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : 129
Duration : 4mn 16s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -40ms
Stream size : 11.7 MiB (2%)

Text
ID : 4608 (0x1200)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PGS
Codec ID : 144
Duration : 4mn 15s
Delay relative to video : -40ms

[chris57]

Yep its the L4.2 and 50fps on these that causes the problem we think. Search the forum and you'll find other Panasonic camera owners with the same output.
50p to AVCHD is new, it is part of AVCHD 2.0.

I have got them to work but it requires using multiAVCHD or similar and creating a AVCHD folder. Try it.

[awakener]

Yes I know but the file is working fine on a Qnap NMP-100P who has the same Sigma chip.

[Streamerke]

It is a well known problem on this forum. There are several other topics one of which is mine. I am an owner of a SD900 too.

Basically what moderators are saying is that 1080p50 (or 1080p60 for that matter) does not fall under the AVCHD standard so Syabass should not support it. While this is probably technically correct it is strange that they don't as many cameras now shoot double PAL or double NSTC.

The footage SHOULD be playable though in the right circumstances. There were a few tips but I still did not manage to play a 1080p50 file on my A210.

It should be possible to put a 1080p50 file in a mp4 container, then the PCH should play the file. I did not manage to do this as I did not find the right software. I stopped searching for a solution until I have some more time. Also lack of descent editing software that supports double frame rates in x264 codec caused me to continue shooting 1080i50.

I would like to be able to use the full potential of the camera though. If there is anyone who can explain how to put a 1080p50 file in a mp4 container, that would be helpful! The software I used gave errors when importing the m2ts file. I don't even know anymore what it was... MP4Box or something...?

[chris57]

Don't speak for me please if you are going to misquote me.

What I am saying is simply that 1080p/50p is not within AVCHDv1.0. It is within AVCHDv2.0 I believe. If it is possible for Syabas to make these files play with the 8647 chip then they should, provided the demand is there as we all know how finite engineering resources are and how there are other issues that may affect more owners. So create a FEATURE thread and get Panasonic Camera owners to post and promote it. However as we are talking AVCHD you should always have a AVCHD folder and not single m2ts files. These are not finished output and are generally camera output that does require editing software. So if we are talking standards then you must follow them.

Trying to play a single m2ts file will never be the way to go as m2ts files should be within a AVCHD file structure not single files. It's like having a vob file without the IFO file. If they play then great, however as we all know hardware decoders need files that are within specs.

[Streamerke]

I also tried a AVCHD structure while I changed level from 4.2 to 4.1 using TSMuxer. This does not work either.

It should however be possible to play these files in at least two ways on a 200 series so definitely on a 300 series, that is at least the outcome of the thread I started. I will copy a link a bit later.

---

Here is the conclusion from member Pain:

I will definitely try again:


I then decided to do my own experiments:
Using the 00012.MTS as source in Handbrake, I created both a .MKV and a .MP4 using the exact same settings.

The .MKV plays with the same slow video and normal audio as the file I got from Streamerke, and the .MP4 play perfectly.

I then used tsMuxer to extract the video and audio streams from the file 00012.MTS. http://www.smlabs.net/en/products/tsmuxer/
After that I used MP4Box to mux the video+audio into a .MP4 that also plays perfectly. http://gpac.wp.institut-telecom.fr/mp4box/
After that I used MKVMerge to mux the video+audio into a .MKV which doesn't play at all. It returns to the UI immediately.

Conclusion:
The A210/A200/C200 can play 50fps 1080p material, but only in the .MP4 container, and not in .MTS, .TS, .M2TS or .MKV.
Is there a good reason why there is a difference between .MKV and .MP4 in this case?
Chris59 has been collecting stuttering .MKV's with mostly AAC sound and I'm wondering what would happen if they were converted to .MP4.


The material is Streamerke's homevideo, so you will have to ask him about getting hold of it. He will soon have access to my files as well.

FYI:
1. My PC cannot play any of the files using VLC. They play slowed down, and jerky. Mediaplayer using hardware accelerated ffdshow can play lower bitrate (12Mbps) versions in .MKV correct, but .MP4 format plays slow.
My PC has an Amd AthlonII X4 CPU @2.8Ghz, and when using VLC the load is around 30-35%. Apparently more than CPU is needed to play these videos smoothly.

2. According to Wikipedia, 50fps at 1080p is not actually part of the AVCHD standard, so PCH can be excused for not supporting it in .mts, .ts etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#1080p

[chris57]

I'll remux a MKV with AAC into a mp4 and see if that plays. Currently MKV with AAC audio cause the player to crash.

I think there's always going to be a need for some PC work on camera output. A remux is the best way and if we can get one worked out that works for these file then great.

[awakener]

What I need is a NMT that can play all these files without any problem. Now what I can see the QNAP NMP-1000P can play these files .mts files without any problems. I have tested this over and over. I don't want to convert these files to .mp4 everytime so I have to reconsider if I'm going to buy a new PCH 300 series or going to switch to a player that can play these files without any issues...

[Willem53]

It's called a feature request...

[Streamerke]

(02-06-2012 11:26 AM)awakener Wrote:  What I need is a NMT that can play all these files without any problem. Now what I can see the QNAP NMP-1000P can play these files .mts files without any problems. I have tested this over and over. I don't want to convert these files to .mp4 everytime so I have to reconsider if I'm going to buy a new PCH 300 series or going to switch to a player that can play these files without any issues...

I know what you mean but I do not think it is going to happen soon...

[awakener]

(02-06-2012 11:38 AM)Willem53 Wrote:  It's called a feature request...

It's called a feature request? Why should I buy a new PCH-C300 and wait that this issue is resolved while I can by another player which supports this type of files? This is for my a big issue and I am not going to wait until this is resolved.

[chris57]

You are sounding like a spoilt child.

Your posts are confusing as you seem to indicate that you have the NMP-1000 and then you talk about going and getting one. Very confusing. The disappointing part is that if you don't let them know you wont get anything fixed, and from a quick read both use the 8643 so both should be able to play the files if one can. However you wont put the effort in so we'll have to hope that some other Panasonic camera user will.

---

Remember the grass is not always as green as it seems on the other side:-
http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=176&t=54597

I would need to see the player playing a 50p or 60p mts file myself as its doubtful to me due to the lack of recent development and the fact that 50p/60p in AVCHD is very new and termed AVCHDv2 or Progressive and I've not seen it claimed yet anywhere so whether the chip can play it I don't know. If one 8643 player can do it then it seems reasonable to ask why another may not. However demanding it when L4.2 playback is not claimed in the PCH specs is not the way to go about it.

[Streamerke]

Chris, your help is much appreciated, don't get me wrong... but I think no-one is spoiled here!

This issue is very very VERY well known. How many topics have there been about 1080p50 in a year? If it is a feature request than it is a feature request since the 200 series. Yet, each time there is a new topic the specialists act as if they never heard of the issue before

Now, I agree with you that people tend to have (too) many wishes. The question is: what are legitimate/normal excpectations and what is being spoiled?

1080p50 cameras are on the market for at least 3 years now. Are users acting like spoiled children when they expect their PCH plays these files? Maybe, but both PCH and high end cameras are bought by "early adopter" kind of customers. In this sence I do not think the expectation is strange.

If Syabas would pay a little more attention to their existing customer base and did offer some of the most common features that other (often much cheaper) players do (like Youtube, Vimeo, Spotify, ...) then I would be a customer for life. Now I am not so sure. I am thinking of buying a WDTV Live in addition to my PCH only for the purpose of Youtube and Vimeo. It is disappointing that I even have to consider this because I am not sure when Syabas will do something as they do not communicate.

The economic life span of a PCH product is about one year and a half, while people have to wait...exactly... how long for an update? Oh right... we'll know when the update is finally there!