[C-200] Firmware 03-04-120607-21-POP-408 (Public RC) (6.7.2012)

[accident]

(09-07-2012 10:38 AM)mediator Wrote:  Moderators, please don't come up with the default answer that you do not know.

Are you aware that this forum is not run by syabas? It's sponsored by syabas but almost everyone here moderators included are just users like yourself. They only know what you can read on the forum also.

Quote:I'm working in the IT industry for 25 years, you moderators are not just some teenage scriptkiddies, you know better and get much more information than we get on the forums here (if not I truly feel sorry for you and suggest you find a better hobby).

patent sniping is huge in this industry. I've had nda's and non-competes with the biggest player out there and even they wouldn't say as much as syabas does.

99% of the previous information anyone had came from the user beta groups. There hasn't been a single beta posting since the RC was posted. Honestly, nobody knows anything.

Quote:But I'm really fed up being stringed along without getting any usefull information here (or elsewhere) on further support of the C-200 and what (and what not) to expect (with support I'm not referring to hardware replacement parts being kept on stock .

There was a blogger at IFA last week who took a moment to ask what's going on with the 200 series to the current CEO.

The translation can be rough but he basically says they aren't happy with the performance yet and it will not come out until they are: http://www.httv.co.il/article03914

But I don't disagree with you, they should have posted an update saying that a long time ago.

Quote:For the users here it would be good to have a singe page listing all current and previous Popcorn Hour products with hardware revision numbers, firmware revision numbers, current status and more information on features that have been announced (e.g. new ui for C-200).

The official list is the release notes. Firmwares are always listed at the top of the forum and in the announcement section, anything listed as important is the current official status.

There's only users here. I nominate you to put in even more time and effort to help out everyone else by making this list and keeping it up to date. Or were you looking to be greedy and lazy and have someone else do all the work so you can watch videos on your pch while they volunteer their time.

[theDark]

If you dont chill we get RC2...we all know what that means

[aelnattar]

I have a NAS and a PCH C-200 connected on the same switch. I could mount SAMBA and NFS shares onto my PCH with no problems.

Ever since I installed Firmware 03-04-120607-21-POP-408 I am no longer able to to mount the NAS's SAMBA or NFS shares.

I also have an A-210 and did an online firmware upgrade and have the same problem.

I can access the internet from my PCH's though and can watch YouTube videos.

Could this firmware be broken this badly???

EDIT: YES it is broken this badly. After reading this firmware thread completely I now realize five important things (with some overlap):
1- It's not always good to upgrade your firmware.
2- Read the forum thread for the firmware before you blindly install it (of course as a customer you have to somehow magically find out that this forum exists).
3- Do not treat this product the way you treat your TV, NAS, Mobile Phone, or any device you buy that pushes out stable heavily tested firmware updates. Treat it the way you would treat something like Gentoo Linux.
4- Upgrade to get the latest and greatest but wait long enough for some other poor souls to try it first and see if it breaks their PCH. Hopefully there will always be someone naive enough to do that for the rest of us.
5- Know that you can always downgrade your firmware if the new one is not good for you.

The next section is my honest opinion with a small rant
If you disagree with me that's OK, just don't be rude about it.
For installing new firmware to sometimes be a bad idea is an alien concept to me when you purchase a product and pay over $200 for it. I'm a software engineer and am used to dealing with Linux distros and know that upgrades could sometimes break your setup, but that's OK because the software is free. When you pay for a product you expect better QA for firmware releases because people (in many cases non-technical) will always be inclined to blindly install the firmware upgrade to get all the bug fixes since that's when new versions of firmware are usually released...it's always to "fix" something, not "break" something else too. And quite frankly the way the latest firmwares for C-200 and A-210 break (SAMBA and NFS shares not working) is so basic that I'm dumbfounded it passed basic QA. The fact that several PCH owners are getting used to opening it up and moving jumpers around on occasion to reset their box is just crazy. Imagine if you upgraded the firmware for your TV and it suddenly lost all color and everything is black and white, and to fix it you have to open up the TV and move some jumpers around to reset it. I don't care who you are but you'd go berserk!

Don't get me wrong. I love my PCH's. I just think the firmware testing group should add a whole bunch of new test cases to their QA process. It is obviously lacking a lot.

And before anyone tells me that my setup could be different from the one they use to QA I will simply respond by saying that I never play around or get fancy with the settings on my PCH's. It's all defaults with a DHCP IP from my FIOS router and 1 SAMBA share configured.

[mouyo]

(09-09-2012 10:11 PM)aelnattar Wrote:  I have a NAS and a PCH C-200 connected on the same switch. I could mount SAMBA and NFS shares onto my PCH with no problems.

Ever since I installed Firmware 03-04-120607-21-POP-408 I am no longer able to to mount the NAS's SAMBA or NFS shares.

I also have an A-210 and did an online firmware upgrade and have the same problem.

I can access the internet from my PCH's though and can watch YouTube videos.

Could this firmware be broken this badly???

EDIT: YES it is broken this badly. After reading this firmware thread completely I now realize five important things (with some overlap):
1- It's not always good to upgrade your firmware.
2- Read the forum thread for the firmware before you blindly install it (of course as a customer you have to somehow magically find out that this forum exists).
3- Do not treat this product the way you treat your TV, NAS, Mobile Phone, or any device you buy that pushes out stable heavily tested firmware updates. Treat it the way you would treat something like Gentoo Linux.
4- Upgrade to get the latest and greatest but wait long enough for some other poor souls to try it first and see if it breaks their PCH. Hopefully there will always be someone naive enough to do that for the rest of us.
5- Know that you can always downgrade your firmware if the new one is not good for you.

The next section is my honest opinion with a small rant
If you disagree with me that's OK, just don't be rude about it.
For installing new firmware to sometimes be a bad idea is an alien concept to me when you purchase a product and pay over $200 for it. I'm a software engineer and am used to dealing with Linux distros and know that upgrades could sometimes break your setup, but that's OK because the software is free. When you pay for a product you expect better QA for firmware releases because people (in many cases non-technical) will always be inclined to blindly install the firmware upgrade to get all the bug fixes since that's when new versions of firmware are usually released...it's always to "fix" something, not "break" something else too. And quite frankly the way the latest firmwares for C-200 and A-210 break (SAMBA and NFS shares not working) is so basic that I'm dumbfounded it passed basic QA. The fact that several PCH owners are getting used to opening it up and moving jumpers around on occasion to reset their box is just crazy. Imagine if you upgraded the firmware for your TV and it suddenly lost all color and everything is black and white, and to fix it you have to open up the TV and move some jumpers around to reset it. I don't care who you are but you'd go berserk!

Don't get me wrong. I love my PCH's. I just think the firmware testing group should add a whole bunch of new test cases to their QA process. It is obviously lacking a lot.

And before anyone tells me that my setup could be different from the one they use to QA I will simply respond by saying that I never play around or get fancy with the settings on my PCH's. It's all defaults with a DHCP IP from my FIOS router and 1 SAMBA share configured.

Totally agree with you,
what surprises me is that new models come out, and do not fix the problems of the previous

I'm looking at other brands, because I start to get very disappointed

regards

[grizzly666]

The only problem with looking at other brands is that then you will get other problems and more then likely worse support and problems.
There is NO company today that do NOT treat their customer as beta tester in the media player market.
And there are NO mediaplayers released today that does work 100%.

What you have to do is choose one player that has the most rights for you and as few faults for you as possible (NOTE the "for you" part).
For example if you value picture quality then choose a sigma device since realtek,intel,etc is not as good.
If you value the best support then syabas is among the top but have a LONG way to go yet (but not as long compared to most other).

That said i can say i'm not happy about how they have treated the 200 series for the last 1,5 years but then again how many supports that old hw at all.
So i'm pretty sure that if i had gone any other way i would surely been just as or probably more angry at that company.

And the beta testing customers are only growing and growing for more markets like phones,computers,programs,games,smart tv's,refigurators,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc (meaning the more smart a device is the more likely it is the FW is crap) so get used to it or you have to stop buy anything that is not 2-3 years old.

And i hope my erlier prediction is false (since the a-400 is due there will probably not be anything for the 200 this year).

[sanctrum]

@grizzly666
1.5 year, 2 years, 3 years of support? And what is the result? We are all at the beginning... The Day Zero as many bugs just came back or features have just disappeared (at least important to me)

@aelnattar
ad 5. No, you cannot roll back in all situations. You are limited to the latest step-stone version, and cannot go back to the older releases (as you shall brick c200)

As the rest... I totally are with you both.

Currently I am thinking about going back to the may 2011 firmware and just install LTU... and then to forget ANY future fw upgrades and about Syabas products.
And yes I know about AACS keys upgrades... but in that case I do not care. My BD-Rom collection is so huge: null, zero, niente, nic, c'est rien.

[accident]

(09-11-2012 07:46 PM)grizzly666 Wrote:  And i hope my erlier prediction is false (since the a-400 is due there will probably not be anything for the 200 this year).

you mean the remainder of the year? The c200 needs to have a stepstone update for aacs keys before the year is out or bluray optical will stop working.

I'd say it's a 50/50 chance of anything else coming out for 200s. It really depends on this merge dev system they are putting together. if that's working well then it sholdn't be too much additional effort to get the 200 sdk under the new framework and push out the new ui.

[grizzly666]

Damn is it that time already
Time apperently goes fast when waiting for FW.

[plm]

(09-11-2012 08:15 PM)accident Wrote:  I'd say it's a 50/50 chance of anything else coming out for 200s. It really depends on this merge dev system they are putting together. if that's working well then it sholdn't be too much additional effort to get the 200 sdk under the new framework and push out the new ui.

That's the key thing, I think. If they can get to having a unified codebase for these players (assuming the different SDKs allow for this) then it actually becomes pretty easy to support the older players as well and the level of support across the range should improve because the devs can then focus on the platform and not each specific model when cleaning up bugs.

Sigma are still going to be Sigma, of course, no they'll still be at their mercy for SDK bugs, but it would make Syabas's job easier.

[sanctrum]

(09-11-2012 09:21 PM)plm Wrote:  

(09-11-2012 08:15 PM)accident Wrote:  I'd say it's a 50/50 chance of anything else coming out for 200s. It really depends on this merge dev system they are putting together. if that's working well then it sholdn't be too much additional effort to get the 200 sdk under the new framework and push out the new ui.

That's the key thing, I think. If they can get to having a unified codebase for these players (assuming the different SDKs allow for this) then it actually becomes pretty easy to support the older players as well and the level of support across the range should improve because the devs can then focus on the platform and not each specific model when cleaning up bugs.

Sigma are still going to be Sigma, of course, no they'll still be at their mercy for SDK bugs, but it would make Syabas's job easier.

Yes, you are right. But I wonder if flashlite interface is a proper choice, especially that it puts problems with gapless mp3 playback...

[plm]

(09-12-2012 05:21 PM)sanctrum Wrote:  Yes, you are right. But I wonder if flashlite interface is a proper choice, especially that it puts problems with gapless mp3 playback...

I do wonder whether that's an issue with flashlite or with sloppy coding at Syabas though. We know that FLAC isn't bit-perfect with the latest firmware either, which is a worry.

[RedNax]

EDIT: I have since learnt that the source article is in hebrew, not yiddish. When translating with google set to yiddish you'll get the below result, selecting hebrew yields a correct result.

(09-07-2012 11:01 AM)accident Wrote:  The translation can be rough but he basically says they aren't happy with the performance yet and it will not come out until they are: http://www.httv.co.il/article03914

Rough isn't quite covering it when translating the link with google.

Some random, yet hilarious pickings:

"Finance the company Popcorn Hour sucking dogs h - A-400, which hopes the new generation of order A's friend."

"noise orphan (known better name banglis: Mosquito Noise)"

"Heat Popcorn Hour sees blood new khshdrug apparently opposed the order"

And there's a photo of: "President boyfriend, TL Lim."

[sanctrum]

(09-12-2012 07:49 PM)plm Wrote:  

(09-12-2012 05:21 PM)sanctrum Wrote:  Yes, you are right. But I wonder if flashlite interface is a proper choice, especially that it puts problems with gapless mp3 playback...

I do wonder whether that's an issue with flashlite or with sloppy coding at Syabas though. We know that FLAC isn't bit-perfect with the latest firmware either, which is a worry.

I am not 100% sure but quite sure there is a problem with gapless looping of mp3 in flashlite... However one can find some blogs saying how to overcome this. Mark the "looping" word. Looping is not the same as gapless playlist... So if there is problems with looping... so it can go worse with playlists.
Problem with playlist is due to the fact that MP3 does not have info about total duration of the song... however it is worked around by LAME Mp3 info tag (so not all MP3s).

Regarding bit-perfect FLAC... we also do not know if it is due to flashlite... or not. I can not find the post saying that previous fw was bit-perfect with FLAC. However the "not so bit-perfect" FLAC we have now is still gapless as I can not "hear" the difference.

Regarding general discussion about flashlite interface, SDKs, Gaya, etc. Flash technology does not have a "good press" today as it is very CPU/GPU consuming and buggy. Probably flashlite or the bigger Flash itself would be abandoned in the near future... and it would be a dead end too. The same way like GAYA is now for C200. Everyone are switching to HTML5... not sure it is possible with Sigma chips and our precious C200 (the same reason – cpu consuming).

[accident]

I see some confusion in the last few posts. If you didn't know flashlite does not play anything it's just the interface. Just like gaya is the old browser ui running the old framework. It's still the sigma players handling the chipset playing things. That doesn't mean there isn't somethign syabas introduced between the two causes the gapless issues, but to clarify the discussion, it's not flashlite donig the playing.

3 years ago, flashlite was the ui powering most units and all content providers were making flashlite clients for tvs. If you wanted someones internet based service on your tv box you HAD to have flashlite on it and everyone did. I hate flash, but made eversion because I started to see a lot of player companies futures become questionable and it was faster to get somethign in flash I could hack into any player if needed than to start something new.

To be honest, any hardware without opengl core of some form of a gpu in them isn't going to be able to do too much modern. even teh 8911 in the 400 it doesnt' sound like syabas is really going to do tweak their flash client to actually use it. (or maybe we haven't had an opengl core because they don't really understand what it does).

These days I'm seeing a lot of qt.anywhere in units, adobe air has started to be really popular with chipsets really designed for only iptv based usage. Of course you have the xbmc forks with their own sdl to run the screen. They all generally work best with some type of graphics acceleration which the a400 is the first unit to get in it. There's other brands who have really started to embrace that in last years models.

[Haiq]

thanks......