[MKV] Does Nero-Digital not Play inside MKV ?

[mbc]

Hi Guys

I have a ""little"" Problem with all my mkv-files here. Im using the actual Firmware ...

Since a long time ago i convert my movies with Nero-Digital (7.5.11) to the Standart-Cinema-Profile (NOT AVC).

Those give me really nice MP4-Files with 2.0 or 5.1 AAC-Sound.

So i bought a Popcornhour to play them, but i recognized, that i cant get out a usable 5.1 Signal for my amplyfier.

I decided to convert the AAC to AC3, but now i had to change the container too, because MP4 does not allow AC3 inside.

Now i converted all my MP4-files to MKV which play fine on a PC.

But on Popcornhour i got an awful surprise.

Most files not NOT Play anyway. Some play, but with a lot of stuttering.
So I cant use ANY file now.

I found out some stupid things about it:


It seems that the PCH has problems with filesize of these MKVs:

Quote:The original MP4-Filesize ist about 1770 MB. It plays very well, without any problems ... Just perfect.

Quote:The generated MKV is about 1894 MB (because of the additional ac3) and does NOT play anyway.

Quote:If i split the MKV-creating at about 1650 MB each of both files play, but with a lot of stuttering. The biggest part of both files is about 1731MB

So most of my files DO NOT play because of the filesize.
Those who play, are not lookable because of the stuttering.

I found out, that the stuttering is always at the exact same frames. It seems that PCH has problems to decode the I,P or B-Frames if Video is in MKV-Container. It seems that PCHs skipps these pictures.

By the way: If i convert the stuttering MKV back to MP4 or AVI, the file plays again without Problems, no stuttering. The videofile is OK.

I always tried to change the fourCC of the MKV (it ist changed from ndsc to xvid by changing the Container). But that didnt succeed.

Here are two 15 second samples of both files:

The MKV whitch is stuttering:
http://rapidshare.com/files/134304367/MK...t.mkv.html

And the original MP4 wich plays back fine:
http://rapidshare.com/files/134304716/MP...t.mp4.html


Hope that there are any fixes soon ... I must use mkv because of the ac3.
And now the PCH is unusable ...

Regards,

Marco

[HeartWare]

I can promise you it has nothing to do with filesize - I play .MKV files of 12-13 Gb without any problems.

How do you convert the AAC 5.1 audio to AC3 audio and put it in an .MKV container?

[mbc]

Hi,

thanks for answer, i hope my english is not too bad.

Quote:I can promise you it has nothing to do with filesize - I play .MKV files of 12-13 Gb without any problems.

Yes, i can do also (h264 inside), but NOT if there is Nero-Digital-MP4 (h263) inside ... thats really fact in my situation here.
Normal xvid inside mkv is no problem. It seems that the header of the Nero Codec are not recognized correctly by the PCH in this case.
Maybe the decoder does not notice that it has to decode b-frames or something else, so it skips them ... the video begins to stutter at these points. That may be a logic conclusion.
The video plays also correct (without problem of filesize or stuttering by codec) if you "convert" it back to MP4 or AVI. And in that way there is no change on the video itselfs.

Why does the file play after i splitted it and not before?
I cant find another answer for this. In this way i also tried to put the whole file again in mkv without making any chances. No help.
It seems definitly to be filsize in combination with Nero-Digital-video inside.


The "small files" play, the "big files" doesnt play ... and that about 100 of files ... it cant be a pure chance.
Most do not play, but ALL the files have exact the same codec, are EXACTLY converted on the absolutely same way, with exacty the same settings an Programms.
I have strict defaults since some years and i never broke them.
So i can say that all files are exactly "the same".

I demuxed an tested !! a lot !! ... with MP4ui and mp4box. There is no difference.

It also tried the mkvs without any audio (i also thougt that the problems are my ac3 files (genreated with aften), but ist not so. I muxed them with mkvmerge or AVI-MUX ... no difference.

The problem is definitly not the sound ... i think its the analysing of the header if the video is in the mkv. I cant take any other result in the moment. As i said ... i tested a lot.

I uploaded two samples, so any could test by himself ...

I would like to get the Problem solved, as i think its a simple header-problem by PCH.

Regards

Marco

[HeartWare]

Both of the files you provided download links for plays perfectly on my PCH without stuttering or any other problems.

I also tried to convert the MP4 to MKV using MKVmerge, and that one played fine as well...

So I do not recognize the problems you say you have...

(using internal HDD)

[mbc]

Thanks for probing

Did you exactly look upon the golden Logo which "flies" through the picture at the beginning?
In mkv it might not be "smooth".

It begins stucking at the "m" of "Kismet".

I played all files files (stucking mkv and wonderful playing mp4 and AVI) over USB-Hard-Drive AND Network ... all exactly the same result --> only the mkv makes problems.

Marco

[HeartWare]

I couldn't discern any difference between the various files. They all looked identical to me on my setup.

[mbc]

Ok ... another try ... im not cracked :wink:

http://rapidshare.com/files/134591528/004.mkv.html

Another 15 second clip.
The stuckings are in the blending to the moonlight-szene.
You might see it on blending and watching the people along or the cars in the background.

I played this file about 10 times now, and i get it always again in this (blending)-szene. Its absolutely reproducable.

I use HDMI on a TFT.

Another 20 second sample from another film:

The universal logo stucks a lot:

http://rapidshare.com/files/134594771/uvl.mkv.html

I would like to please other people to test my clips too ...

[Beezer]

I've noticed this issue too. Sometimes they won't play video at all, sometimes they'll play ok, but won't resume after you fast forward.

In all cases, changing the container to AVI completely cures it.

[mbc]

Soo .. new Facts ...


In the German Forum, we found out, that there are ALMOST BUGS with the h263 Codec inside MKV. Its not only because of Nero-Digital, its in ALL XVID AND DIXV too.


I encoded a small sample from DVD to DIXV and I recognized stucking there as well.

http://rapidshare.com/files/135854482/te...2.mkv.html

Its at the end of these about 15 seconds example.

I found out that I was right.
The B-Frames inside the h.263 are making problems ONLY if the video is inside MKV.

The extracted AVI plays without Problems.

In the small sample above you can see, that the video stutters exactly 3 times. And these small sample contains exactly 3 B-VOPS at exactly this point ... and these are skipped by PCH-MKV-Parser.


Play the Video as MKV and then extract it and play the Video as AVI ... AVI will work fine.

So its definitly a Bug with the Parser. But there need to be more People to recognize that ... otherwise it will not be fixed. The Problem ist there, I got it almost and it seems, that I never will be able to play videos fine until this is fixed. I dont want to use the "old" AVI-Container ... MKV is future and it has to run nicely.

MFG
Marco

[chris57]

MKV parsing/playback changes to Haali with the next stable firmware release.

Even though Divx is not officially supported the sample you link a divx5 video file within an mkv container played fine without any stuttering.

[mbc]

(08-11-2008 07:18 AM)chris57 Wrote:  MKV parsing/playback changes to Haali with the next stable firmware release.

Yes thats right, but that doesnt solve this Problem completely ...

Quote:Even though Divx is not officially supported the sample you link a divx5 video file within an mkv container played fine without any stuttering.

Yes thats right, but in my way I did never saw problems about Divx, its MPEG 4-compliant (mostly), an I had always exactly the same problems without the matter of using XVID, DIVX or NERO.

We tried a lot in the last few days an found out, das there are different "bugs" with MKV-Parser even with the latest BETA.

On myself im not able to play ANY H.263 in MKV without seeing stuttering or missing frames. All MKVs NEVER run as smooth as the extracted AVI does. There are always frames missing in playback.
I also have the problem, that MOST of my files do not play. I also found out that these Files begin with an B-Frame.
The PCH skipps it while playing, and if the movie begins with a B-Frame, the PCH seems not to find a frame to show, and so he does not play the whole file. Thats logicaly in my opinion.

We found out, that there is already a problem with these B-Frames in h.263 (NOT h.264). These problems are MUCH more visible, if the Packed Bitstream-Flag is set.

If these Flag is set in AVI, the file runs fine. But if you put these AVI into MKV the stuttering is MUCH MORE visible. There you can see how many B-Frames are not played realy. These Flag "boosts" up the effect and shows it realy exact.
In my fault there was every second frame a B-VOP. The result was a Video that seems to have half framerate. original the video had 24fps, but with these Flag set (ans video in MKV) the PCH showed only about 12 fps ...


I tried now really a lot of MPEG4(h263)-files, also not encoded by myself. Everyone stucks in MKV ... always at the same "frames". They are missing.
I can replay the file 100 times its always the same.

Marco

[chris57]

Why are you putting divx files in an mkv container? Why are you putting Nero Digital files in an mkv container? These type of files belong in an avi or mp4 container.

Post a link to a sample that doesnt play rather than one that does if you want it checking out.