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Internet browser on the PCH!
09-13-2008, 02:17 PM
Post: #1
Internet browser on the PCH!
I have not found this as a request so:

My wife and practically all her friends are crazy about the idea that you could browse the internet on your big screen TV. And all of them without an exception hate the idea to use the most user unfriendly creation in human history (the PC) in their living room. Smart creatures, the women. Smile
I understand that it would take a lot of work but I do believe that it would be a very, very popular feature. I would love it too and I dont know anyone that wouldnt. OK maybe a few techno-freaks on the forum (sorry guys) but there are far more people on the planet that are just too tired to complicate.
So maybe after the other major issues are taken care of, the next step that would bring PCH to a new level...?

Thank you

mk
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09-17-2008, 02:43 PM
Post: #2
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
Meh...

Get a Wii and try it out. I think you'll find that web browsing is more of a novelty. The only other device I've ever used to browse the web consistently besides my PC is the iPhone and I have a long list of devices that are easily capable of web browsing, including the Wii.

I think a "channels" idea would be a better fit for the PCH. (NOTE: I don't actually have a PCH yet, I'm waiting for it to be shipped to me, so this feature may already exist) What I mean by "channels" is like having a Youtube channel, or a Metacafe channel. Something that you can easily navigate and play content from.
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09-18-2008, 12:49 PM
Post: #3
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
(09-17-2008 02:43 PM)smiley2billion Wrote:  Meh...

Get a Wii and try it out. I think you'll find that web browsing is more of a novelty. The only other device I've ever used to browse the web consistently besides my PC is the iPhone and I have a long list of devices that are easily capable of web browsing, including the Wii.

I think a "channels" idea would be a better fit for the PCH. (NOTE: I don't actually have a PCH yet, I'm waiting for it to be shipped to me, so this feature may already exist) What I mean by "channels" is like having a Youtube channel, or a Metacafe channel. Something that you can easily navigate and play content from.

Weather web browsing is a novelty is completely irrelevant. People want it and sooner or later it will become as common as playing MP3s on your Hi-Fi. Imagine if the response to this request had been - buy another Hi-Fi system. LOL One for the FM, one for tapes, one for CDs and another one for MP3s. And again, there are too many tired people on the planet that just want simplicity. I dont think anyone is looking for another box that can specifically do internet browsing but for a one that can do it in addition.

I dont know what vision people at Syabas have for their company but so far it seems they are trying to be ahead in innovation. If their product is already capable of the function .... They can do a market research beforehand but I think it would be cheaper just to implement it.

And the most important reason - it would make my wife happy. If my wife is happy, I am happy. Wink

mk

PS: Just for fun - calculate how many minutes it takes per event if you instead go to another room, turn on the PC, log in and start browsing there. Or unnecessary cost if you buy a Wii just for browsing. Multiply that by millions of people. How much time and resources is the humanity wasting? So, to tease you a little, implementing browsing would be a very moral thing to do. Wink No offense.
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09-18-2008, 01:36 PM
Post: #4
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
question is, is PCH's hardware capable of using a browser?
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09-18-2008, 01:45 PM
Post: #5
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
(09-18-2008 01:36 PM)zx-9r Wrote:  question is, is PCH's hardware capable of using a browser?

I understand that it is:

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...t=internet

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...p?tid=7958

http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/20.../index.dml

Am I wrong?

mk
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09-18-2008, 06:46 PM
Post: #6
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
(09-18-2008 12:49 PM)mkkm Wrote:  
(09-17-2008 02:43 PM)smiley2billion Wrote:  Meh...

Get a Wii and try it out. I think you'll find that web browsing is more of a novelty. The only other device I've ever used to browse the web consistently besides my PC is the iPhone and I have a long list of devices that are easily capable of web browsing, including the Wii.

I think a "channels" idea would be a better fit for the PCH. (NOTE: I don't actually have a PCH yet, I'm waiting for it to be shipped to me, so this feature may already exist) What I mean by "channels" is like having a Youtube channel, or a Metacafe channel. Something that you can easily navigate and play content from.

Weather web browsing is a novelty is completely irrelevant. People want it and sooner or later it will become as common as playing MP3s on your Hi-Fi. Imagine if the response to this request had been - buy another Hi-Fi system. LOL One for the FM, one for tapes, one for CDs and another one for MP3s. And again, there are too many tired people on the planet that just want simplicity. I dont think anyone is looking for another box that can specifically do internet browsing but for a one that can do it in addition.

I dont know what vision people at Syabas have for their company but so far it seems they are trying to be ahead in innovation. If their product is already capable of the function .... They can do a market research beforehand but I think it would be cheaper just to implement it.

And the most important reason - it would make my wife happy. If my wife is happy, I am happy. Wink

mk

PS: Just for fun - calculate how many minutes it takes per event if you instead go to another room, turn on the PC, log in and start browsing there. Or unnecessary cost if you buy a Wii just for browsing. Multiply that by millions of people. How much time and resources is the humanity wasting? So, to tease you a little, implementing browsing would be a very moral thing to do. Wink No offense.


I'm not saying that you need to go buy a Wii if you want web browsing, I'm saying that browsing the web on a TV screen is kinda pointless. For the PCH there's the issue of input, you'd need keyboard / mouse support if you wanted to do any effective browsing first of all. So then you've got that cluttering up your couch or coffee table as well as remotes for your TV and devices.

Then there's the issue of text readability. Most all websites just weren't designed to be read on a TV. Sure you can adjust the font size and implement a "zoom" function but you'd spend most of your time trying to make things legible rather than getting information. About the time issue, I dare say you'd spend more time just trying to read a page on the TV then it would take to walk over to the computer and bring it up there.

I'd say the most effective tool for internet browsing from the couch would be a laptop with a wireless network if walking over to the PC is really that much of an issue.

Having used various means means to bring up web pages on TV screens over the years (PC hooked to the TV, Nintendo Wii, etc) I can say for sure that the novelty of it wears off fast.

This isn't to say that I don't think internet/web enabled applications don't have their place on a device like this, things like IMDB lookup for TV shows or movies and weather forecast information are a perfect fit, but a full blown browser would just be more annoying than anything, IMHO. Big Grin
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09-18-2008, 07:01 PM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2008 07:04 PM by excal.)
Post: #7
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
while it would be cool

Journey's post in that first thread is dead on.

As someone who's been making html pages for use on the popcornhour...i can say that its browser capabilities are quite limited.

One big thing that is gonna kill is the fact that the PCH doesn't support frames at all....so any page with a frame (which is a lot of websites) is gonna be all messed up....it also only kind of uses java...and no flash. Plus the CSS capabilities are sorta weak as far as web use goes.

So in the end i think you'd end up being disappointed by what you saw on a fairly regular basis.

to change all that would require a lot of revamping from syabas' end...and really distract them from what the unit was made for...

With that said, i agree it'd be cool to have the option...tho i doubt very much i'd use it often. I had a PC hooked up to my 50 tv before...its really not all its cracked up to be...the tv resolution isn't nearly as good as the pc monitor...and text looks fairly awful.

just my opinion tho.
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09-18-2008, 09:49 PM
Post: #8
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
(09-18-2008 06:46 PM)smiley2billion Wrote:  I'm not saying that you need to go buy a Wii if you want web browsing, I'm saying that browsing the web on a TV screen is kinda pointless. For the PCH there's the issue of input, you'd need keyboard / mouse support if you wanted to do any effective browsing first of all. So then you've got that cluttering up your couch or coffee table as well as remotes for your TV and devices.

Then there's the issue of text readability. Most all websites just weren't designed to be read on a TV. Sure you can adjust the font size and implement a "zoom" function but you'd spend most of your time trying to make things legible rather than getting information. About the time issue, I dare say you'd spend more time just trying to read a page on the TV then it would take to walk over to the computer and bring it up there.

I'd say the most effective tool for internet browsing from the couch would be a laptop with a wireless network if walking over to the PC is really that much of an issue.

Having used various means means to bring up web pages on TV screens over the years (PC hooked to the TV, Nintendo Wii, etc) I can say for sure that the novelty of it wears off fast.

This isn't to say that I don't think internet/web enabled applications don't have their place on a device like this, things like IMDB lookup for TV shows or movies and weather forecast information are a perfect fit, but a full blown browser would just be more annoying than anything, IMHO. Big Grin

Im not saying that this is a have or die feature. But if it is possible it would make little sense not to implement it. Do I understand correctly that it is possible but it requires a lot of work?

As far as the input goes: we have a wireless network at home but balancing a laptop in your lap is not practical. Wireless keyboard with a trackball is. It seems like there is no big difference but it is big enough that one you would use and the other one you just do not. We also have 1 harmony one remote that does it all (see the pattern that points to user friendly) so there would be no cluttering. I dont think making space for one keyboard should be a problem anyway.

On readability - I presume it would be the same as if you connect the PC to your TV. I have a full HD TV that is big enough and close enough and the picture is perfect. Or am I missing something?

I am sure that the novelty wears off fast if you want to see how browsing the internet looks on your big screen TV. But if you actually want to browse the net over TV it does not. Its so many things besides IMBD that I just dont know where to start. Well, ask my wife Wink

So for those that would find a full blown browser more annoying than anything a solution would be not to use it? Big Grin

mk
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09-18-2008, 10:01 PM
Post: #9
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
(09-18-2008 09:49 PM)mkkm Wrote:  
(09-18-2008 06:46 PM)smiley2billion Wrote:  I'm not saying that you need to go buy a Wii if you want web browsing, I'm saying that browsing the web on a TV screen is kinda pointless. For the PCH there's the issue of input, you'd need keyboard / mouse support if you wanted to do any effective browsing first of all. So then you've got that cluttering up your couch or coffee table as well as remotes for your TV and devices.

Then there's the issue of text readability. Most all websites just weren't designed to be read on a TV. Sure you can adjust the font size and implement a "zoom" function but you'd spend most of your time trying to make things legible rather than getting information. About the time issue, I dare say you'd spend more time just trying to read a page on the TV then it would take to walk over to the computer and bring it up there.

I'd say the most effective tool for internet browsing from the couch would be a laptop with a wireless network if walking over to the PC is really that much of an issue.

Having used various means means to bring up web pages on TV screens over the years (PC hooked to the TV, Nintendo Wii, etc) I can say for sure that the novelty of it wears off fast.

This isn't to say that I don't think internet/web enabled applications don't have their place on a device like this, things like IMDB lookup for TV shows or movies and weather forecast information are a perfect fit, but a full blown browser would just be more annoying than anything, IMHO. Big Grin

Im not saying that this is a have or die feature. But if it is possible it would make little sense not to implement it. Do I understand correctly that it is possible but it requires a lot of work?

As far as the input goes: we have a wireless network at home but balancing a laptop in your lap is not practical. Wireless keyboard with a trackball is. It seems like there is no big difference but it is big enough that one you would use and the other one you just do not. We also have 1 harmony one remote that does it all (see the pattern that points to user friendly) so there would be no cluttering. I dont think making space for one keyboard should be a problem anyway.

On readability - I presume it would be the same as if you connect the PC to your TV. I have a full HD TV that is big enough and close enough and the picture is perfect. Or am I missing something?

I am sure that the novelty wears off fast if you want to see how browsing the internet looks on your big screen TV. But if you actually want to browse the net over TV it does not. Its so many things besides IMBD that I just dont know where to start. Well, ask my wife Wink

So for those that would find a full blown browser more annoying than anything a solution would be not to use it? Big Grin

mk

I agree that the PC is the best place for browsing. If I'm going to need a keyboard with a trackball on my lap, a laptop is just as easy. I know for my situation, I would have trouble reading the smaller fonts on my TV, due to the distance that I am from the TV.

Personally, I don't even think all of the web-content that the PCH DOES do is very useful either - I can do all of that stuff from my PC a lot faster and easier. I actually wish they'd GET AWAY from that stuff and concentrate on it's core functionality a little more (such as music playing, which is currently VERY limited).

Of course, everyone has different preferences... Once the PCH is complete and stable in it's core functions (movies, music and photos), if they can add a web browser, I don't see why they shouldn't. But, I'd hope they get the core functions down a little better before they add new functions!
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09-18-2008, 10:04 PM
Post: #10
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
(09-18-2008 07:01 PM)excal Wrote:  to change all that would require a lot of revamping from syabas' end...and really distract them from what the unit was made for...

So far no one commented on

http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/20.../index.dml

It makes one wonder.

I most definitely agree that they should work on major issues first, no doubt about it. But I do find the question what something was made for completely irrelevant. Why it was made is the important one. After answering it they may just find out that the PCH was made for browsing the internet too.

mk
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09-18-2008, 10:23 PM
Post: #11
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
(09-18-2008 10:04 PM)mkkm Wrote:  So far no one commented on

http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/20.../index.dml

It makes one wonder.

Perhaps because when folks click your URL they get:

Code:
We're terribly sorry, but that didn't work

The page you are looking for could not be found. It may be temporarily or permanently unavailable, or you may have misspelled the address (URL).

If you followed a link here, please contact the administrator of the referring site to report this error.

Consider yourself contacted Smile
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09-18-2008, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2008 11:21 PM by mkkm.)
Post: #12
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
(09-18-2008 10:23 PM)edmc Wrote:  
(09-18-2008 10:04 PM)mkkm Wrote:  So far no one commented on

http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/20.../index.dml

It makes one wonder.

Perhaps because when folks click your URL they get:

Code:
We're terribly sorry, but that didn't work

The page you are looking for could not be found. It may be temporarily or permanently unavailable, or you may have misspelled the address (URL).

If you followed a link here, please contact the administrator of the referring site to report this error.

Consider yourself contacted Smile

Oops! Thanks. This one works.

http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/20.../index.dml

Contacted?
mk
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09-19-2008, 02:41 PM
Post: #13
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
well, i use Opera mini in my mobile (Sony Ericsson k800i), without any problem...

and do i agree that pc's is the best solution for browsing the internet, however most people don't have one near the tv...
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12-05-2008, 04:05 AM
Post: #14
Lightning RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
I would also like to see a more robust browser on the NMT, but not for Web browsing.

The whole menu system is based on HTML! To tell a GUI web developer like myself that the menu system is HTML based, then give me such a limited subset of HTML, CSS, and JavaScript... well... that's just plain cruel.

My company develops rich browser interfaces in JavaScript, and supporting HTML 4, CSS 2, and JavaScript 1.5 would open up a whole new world of possibilities for NMT themes and enhanced menus.

Give me a more modern browser engine like you'd find in Opera or FireFox... with absolute positioning and writable "style.offset" support... and I will personally give you a menu system and animated set-top user interface that really rocks.

Plus, you wouldn't have to keep asking for cover art support and other UI enhancements because other developers would be able to get those things out faster. Let PCH focus on getting the codecs and hardware drivers rock solid, and let the UI guys do what they do best.
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01-14-2009, 05:10 PM
Post: #15
RE: Internet browser on the PCH!
I Agree with SKIZZLE, since the PCH has a built-in browser already, why not make the browser better support html. After that, browsing the web would be as easy as adding google or your favorite pages to the web services menu (as I've already done with a few pages that work).

As far as the readability of things on tv goes, I've had PC's hooked up to both standard def tv's and hi-def tvs. Readability of standard def is worse than terrible, very impractical. However, I have also had a PC hooked up to a 32" lcd and I quite often browse the web on it. As long as you are not more than a couple of yards away, text is highly readable. On the PCH text entry would be a pain, unless usb keyboard support was added, but just being able to plug weather.gov into my web services menu and have it work would be fantastic.
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