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Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
10-13-2008, 12:21 PM
Post: #1
Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
It seems that there is a big difference in the way PCH renders certain sized images when viewing the image as a photo and when viewing the image through the built-in HTML browser. I took an image (Monsters Inc. fanart - http://www.themoviedb.org/image/backdrop...98781.jpg) and resized it to 1280x720 and created a simple web page that only displays the image (using the img tag). There are lots of weird rendering defects on my screen (large blocks kind of like JPEG blocks are visible everywhere) when viewing as a web page, no defects when viewing the image through the photo viewer. I started resizing down and the defects really disappear once the image is 1024x576. I then added the width and height tags (img src="myimage1024x576.jpg" width=1280 height=720) to force the browser to resize the 1024x576 image to 1280x720 when displayed. Comparing the 1024x576 image that is stretched by the browser versus the original 1280x720 image shows a far superior image when the source image is 1024x576, even though it is being stretched!! None of the weird rendering defects that are present when displaying the 1280x720 image.

It looks like there is a quality of image rendering falloff when the image is greater than 1024x576. I could not get the PCH to stretch the background using the tips that you can find by doing a google search. I did this test on a single image so, it would be useful if others did the same thing and confirmed my observations.

Has anyone else noticed this? Any insights as to why PCH does this?
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10-13-2008, 12:36 PM
Post: #2
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
I have observed this problem as well and would really like a fix.

It looks like the image is being enlarged because I'm missing picture on all sides in the html page, but in the photoviewer I can see the whole picture. It could have something to do with when an image is enlarged or made smaller at an odd percentage you will get weird rendering effects. I've observed this in photoshop for example shrinking the image 13% created the weird rendering effects but shrinking it 50% worked fine.
I'm just really hoping there is a way to fix it.
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10-13-2008, 01:27 PM
Post: #3
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
When you are viewing images in the browser I believe you are just watching things rendered in the frame buffer, when you are viewing them as images they use the hardware. I believe there are some size restrictions on the input images too and I am not sure that 1024x576 is the perfect resolution.

Martin
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10-13-2008, 02:04 PM (This post was last modified: 10-13-2008 02:04 PM by Pernod.)
Post: #4
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
In addition to Martin's reply...

Here is part of an agent string from a PCH:
( TV Res1280x720; Browser Res1100x656-32bits; Res1280x720; )

The resolution of the PCH browser is always 1100x656, so any larger images will have to be shrunk to fit.

The TV Res 1280x720 is variable depending on which output mode you are using for displayling media, and it's this resolution that is used when playing video, or photo slideshows.

Hope this clarifies things Smile

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Players: Popcorn A-300 | Popcorn A-200 | Popcorn A-100 | Netgear EVA700
AV: Pioneer VSX-915 | Samsung LE40C650
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10-13-2008, 02:19 PM
Post: #5
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
so are you saying if an image is set to 1100x656 it should display perfectly in browser mode?

If thats true tho....my question is it wouldn't fill the screen tho right? Because the screen size is set to 1280x720?

thanks for the info
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10-13-2008, 02:45 PM (This post was last modified: 10-13-2008 02:48 PM by Pernod.)
Post: #6
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
Now it gets a liitle complicated...

Think of the browser res as the maximum that can be used without any resizing occuring. Larger images are probably shrunk to browser size then upscaled to TV size.

Also depends on how you're sending the image to the html page, is it a page background, or image on the page?

As a simple test define a html page with an image as background, then define a table with 100% width and height with border=1. You should see that the browser does not fill the screen, but the background does.

SwissCenter Developer
Players: Popcorn A-300 | Popcorn A-200 | Popcorn A-100 | Netgear EVA700
AV: Pioneer VSX-915 | Samsung LE40C650
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10-13-2008, 03:02 PM
Post: #7
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
In the situation i'm most interested in...its a skin for YAMJ.

The image is a background for the html page (i.e. in the body tag).

I had been using a 1280x720 image as the page background.

But a lot of people are complaining of some artifacting and pixelation of the page background image.

So we're trying to figure out a way to fix that...wether its using a different size image file...or something in our coding or what.
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10-13-2008, 03:45 PM
Post: #8
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
I would experiment with a 1920x1080 image but don't have a FullHD display to test with Sad

Maybe someone at Syabas could comment on how images are resized and rendered by the browser?

SwissCenter Developer
Players: Popcorn A-300 | Popcorn A-200 | Popcorn A-100 | Netgear EVA700
AV: Pioneer VSX-915 | Samsung LE40C650
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10-13-2008, 03:49 PM
Post: #9
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
Well i can say i even get some and i'm using a 720p tv. Tho mine isn't all that bad.

But if you got a 720p tv set, you could still experiment with it and see an example of the problem with a 1280x720 image (if used as the page background).
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10-13-2008, 05:52 PM
Post: #10
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
i think a 1920 by 1080 background is just going to make the pixellation/artifacts worse... has anyone tried 1100 by 656? this will probably cause the background to be tiled..
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10-13-2008, 06:13 PM
Post: #11
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
I will definitely try that exact size tonight when I get home and report the results. In my little experiment, I kept the aspect ratio locked. I tried 1100x619, and it looked bad with artifacts (I cannot remember if it tiled or not). If the browser is exactly 1100x656, then having a background image that is this exact size could eliminate one of the image rescales depending on the PCH's image path. However, the artifacts that I am seeing (running @1080p) don't look like typical image resizing artifacts to me. The defect areas have a good sized "blocky look" to them even in relatively flat (low frequency) color areas. If I take an image that is natively 1280x720 and resize it to 1100x656 using the most basic and ugly scaling algorithm, pixel mapping, then rescale that image to 1920x1080 again using pixel mapping then the resulting image does look bad in that the edges are pretty pixelated (lacking smoothness). However, it still looks way better than what the PCH displays on my TV as the PCH is adding what looks like compression block artifacts all over the image. Those blocks look like either A) the PCH is working on images in nxn blocks and there is a problem/bug with how this is working with larger images or B) the PCH is doing some form of compression/decompression and is working in blocks (much like how JPEG works) and the compression is WAY too aggressive.

I agree, it would be nice if Syabas would give us a little insight as to what is going on here.
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10-13-2008, 08:00 PM
Post: #12
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
From the Syabas documentation for MSP page 10

b) Design For High Definition TV (HD)
...
2. Please ensure your background image must be 1280 x 720 pixel.
3. Ensure all the information displayed is within 1100 x 656 pixel area.
...
Ensure each image file size is not exceed 130 kb.

Martin
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10-13-2008, 08:49 PM
Post: #13
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
(10-13-2008 08:00 PM)emveepee Wrote:  Ensure each image file size is not exceed 130 kb.

Interesting, that point, I noticed this weekend that some of the background images I was using for YAMJ + Robinsjexcal skin, I had missed resizing them to 1280x720 having them instead at 1920x1080. It appeared the PCH really didn't like them, after browsing maybe 5 or 6 pages it was getting noticeably slower and finally locking up after maybe 10 pages, or so.

When I resized everything to 1280x720 it's much better only getting some slowdown after a few hours of mixed browsing (the jukebox) and movie watching. I'll go back and check the actual file sizes of the backgrounds to see if I should work on compressing them a little.

I do see the problems shaggyjb reports noticeable blockiness and jaggies on some edges.
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10-13-2008, 11:52 PM
Post: #14
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
i can tell you a buncha the files run around 1mb big.
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10-14-2008, 01:11 AM
Post: #15
RE: Image Rendering Problem - PCH HTML Browser
Resizing to 1100x656 still yields plenty of defects, and it tiles the background. My original observation still seems to hold that the defects nearly disappear at 1024x576 for this particular aspect ratio. It really is amazing how much better a 1024x576 image looks than a 1280x720 image. Quite counter intuitive.
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